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[Music]

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This is GamesItWork.biz, your weekly podcast about gaming, technology, and play.

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Your hosts are Michael Martine, Andy Piper, and Michael Rowe.

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The thoughts and opinions on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests alone,

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and are not the opinions of any organization which they have been, are, or may be, affiliated with.

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This is episode 513, not dead yet.

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[upbeat music]

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Hello and welcome again to another edition of games@work.biz.

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This is Michael Martine.

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One of your co-hosts I'm joined today by another Michael, while Andy is away this week.

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We're kind of swapping chairs a lot here in these couple of weeks.

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Michael, how are you doing today?

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Yes. I'm doing well. I really enjoyed listening to last week's show. You guys, as always, did a great job, especially with me not being there.

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Can we had fun?

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Ah, thank you for the vote of competence,

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and we missed you.

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You had a perspective on.

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So I'm sure some of those might be even popping out while we're talking today.

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So we've got great show as per usual.

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Lots of interesting news stories and things to talk about.

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And probably really excited to get started off with this one because we've talked about Clippy from Microsoft quite a bit.

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We're gonna start an end on Microsoft if we get through our playlist in order today.

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if we may get through the entire list.

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We'll see.

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So it's great to be able to download a version of Clippy

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so let you connect to a variety of large language models and then just have that lovely interface that hopefully it can go ding, ding, ding.

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It looks like you're trying to ask a question.

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So, so I got to ask, "Did you install it? I did. I did." And basically they've, they've done a really good job of just putting a local LLM behind Clippy UI. It doesn't pay attention to anything you're doing. No, basically what happens is when you put your mouse pointer over Clippy, it turns into a little question mark. You click on that,

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Not yet, no.

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Good, good for you.

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So there's no engagement interface, that sort of thing, task awareness, none of that.

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and it'll give you a window where you can type in a question, and then Clippy will answer your question using whichever model that you choose. And there's about six or seven models you can choose.

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The thing that's so funny about it, though, is it is the Windows 95/Windows 2000 UI.

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So when you're, when you're running it on.

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any of the platforms that it supports so Mac, Windows, Linux, it will be that Windows UI completely which was kind of fun to play with and I actually asked Clippy, does Clippy work on a Mac and Clippy running on a Mac said no, Clippy does not work on a Mac.

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So as perfect, it was true Clippy.

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Yeah, and you probably used the large language model that knew all about it too.

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So...

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I use the Microsoft large language model because that was one of the ones you could choose.

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Oh, did you?

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Well, yeah, but this is not supported by Microsoft.

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You didn't get to choose all of them though.

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This is not supported by Microsoft.

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So, according to Microsoft, that answer is correct, isn't it?

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But it's like the old joke about flying in a fog and a balloon in the fog.

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Huh? No.

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Remember this joke?

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You float by this window and the guy in the balloon yells out to the guy that he sees in the window.

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He goes, "Hey, where am I?"

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and the guy in building goes you're in a balloon so the answer was it's accurate but it's totally wrong or irrelevant really bad joke so I did have to ask I did I didn't have to ask when you had Clippy installed on your machine back in the day which version of Clippy did you use I think that

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that's a good thing here, but the important thing here. Yeah.

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I think I used the cat actually if I remember right

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Because I I the cat would kind of burr and kind of walk around a little bit and I like that a little bit better

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there was there was the dog from Bob and I used the wizard because you know magic fun times

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Yeah, I'm not didn't do that. No

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Yeah, so that was that was a long time ago. That was a good times

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All right, so and and maybe maybe with llama.io can do something and maybe clip it by that interface That might be more fun because that's that's where I go for that stuff

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All right, so the next

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news story is one that I found that I kind of said in our pre show chat on this. This is very much like the Venmo version of large language models and the story from Business Insider and there's there's another one that that you had found from garbageday.email, which that's a great site right there. Oh, there's Andy. Oh, even better. Oh, well.

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That was actually from Andy. Yeah, yeah, your article I had seen it to and I thought me and didn't post it.

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So we were all getting the same story handed to us this week. And so we had to talk about it.

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Well, luckily luckily in our speed to collect the news and try to scoop everybody else. You know, we're we're doing what we could do any who the meta example here is that you can look at a not a live feed, but a relatively recent feed of how people were engaging with the meta large language model should you choose to share it.

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I'd like to have a picture of a flock of penguins flying over desert island with a jukebox playing my favorite music. And then you said, Hey, I'd like to share that it would be now available for people to see much in the same way that Venmo environment allows you to see who you paying for who you're paying what amount of money and what for with that little bit of social element to it.

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And to me, this was one of these things of, "Okay, I could see where this is."

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It's voyeuristic, and maybe entertaining a little bit, but at the same time, it's kind of like, "Do you really want to?"

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Gosh, it's like those found notes, like, if you're going in a grocery store and somebody had dropped their little sticky note and on it, it said butter and eggs and apples and stuff like that.

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I mean, it's interesting, 'cause it's real people who did real stuff, but would you want to do this? I'd say no, probably not.

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So I had a very different perspective than you.

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Imagine that, because it was, yeah, I know, it's boring.

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That's why we're talking. If they had the same perspective, we wouldn't need more people than.

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So I looked at this a couple of different ways.

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One, there were a couple articles that I saw on this that were complaining on the security angle, especially where there were examples of someone asking like medical questions that were shared, and the articles made it clear.

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And I put that in quotes that you had to share on an individual by individual request for this to work, right?

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And then I started thinking about it.

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One, there are so many systems that wrap the various large language models, and we'll use them to share, to call the APIs in order to have different UI or wrap it up into some kind the prompt chaining or whatever right that the end

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user may or may not know if they're actually specifically sharing an individual transaction or not because I can see bad programming habits sharing every message in that security example when you have a different UI in front of it.

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And then the second part that I've actually thought was just as interesting on a totally different angle was one of the ways that we get better in various technical environments whether it's programming or art or design.

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Is by looking what other people looking at what other people do and learning from it.

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And so this becomes a great example of having kind of a.

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You know, Bolton board where you can see all these different examples of good and bad prompts and learn from that in order to improve your own prompt engineering.

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So, so I kind of went both ways on this one there's the security aspect where it gets opted in without you realizing it because of the third party fronting the.

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API and to the pot so that's the negative and then to the positive side of how do you improve your prompts because I'm sure you've done this to take one LLM to say generate a prompt for me that does XYZ to be used in another LLM and see how it will improve your prompting.

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Yeah, so do you now, you know, go to the mean, you know,

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we've regressed to the mean 'cause you have the positive and the negative.

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So it is a neutral thing for you.

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No, I would never go to this site and look at his crap.

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Yeah, yeah, okay.

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Well, so if you want to explore, you know,

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Please do and tell us all about it.

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met his gotcha, yeah, and maybe post about it and we'll talk about it here on games work on this.

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the next article that was fun.

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This kind of relates back to a few discussions Michael, you and I have had about the benefits of having an Apple Vision Pro kind of experience where you're watching a hockey game or some other game and you're having now the announcers giving you the kind of specific feeds and information you might want.

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This one's around Pong, I was reminded also of the notebook.LM kind of structure that we've talked about before from Google, so this is not easy by any stretch but you can see where you have a couple of different voices. You've got the person who's doing color and you've got the person who's doing the play by play and you can now segment that it's a little bit and have some fun. So kind of cool.

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So yeah, yeah, I, I, I watched the video was pretty long because it was, you know,

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an 11 point match of Pong, uh, first one to 11 wins. And, um, I, I, to be honest,

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most color commentary on sporting events annoys the crap out of me. It's, it's repetitive,

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it's boring, and this did a really good job of that. Um, I do like a good play by play, right?

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Says I can do other things and find out what's going on and listen and then, you know,

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focus on the game when necessary, um, etc. Um, the one thing that was kind of interesting in the video,

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you saw in the background, all the API calls and how it was responding and exactly how they were parsing it. And the one thing that I thought was, was well done was while they're doing the a name color commentary, not that I have an opinion on color commentary.

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that I haven't already voiced. When one of the pongettes scored, they would cut in and say,

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"Oh, let me cut in." They just scored blah, blah, blah, blah, back to the play-by-play aspect of it.

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So I thought that was really interesting. And as you said, yeah, the way they handled the interruption, right?

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Was it interesting that there was an interruption or what was the intriguing part for you?

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Oh, yeah.

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So it was I actually think better than some of the color commentary on sports events, because a lot of times they'll still finish their stupid thought and it's like, wait a minute, something just happened, right?

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And so, cut them off, get the people focused back on the game. You're there to watch the game, not to hear about, you know, in 1823 when the first person played Pong, they actually didn't really use the wrong kind of paddle. Who cares, right?

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But no, I thought it was really cool.

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Now excellent point. Excellent point. And for those reasons when I'm listening to sporting events,

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I choose who my commentators are and I typically turn down the sound on the TV and I turn up the sound on those that I care about because that's what I get as opposed to in a TV commentators that are talking about things that I don't care about. All right. So now let's do to talk about something that you and I both care about quite a bit. And we've got some intriguing automotive of design features here.

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Yeah. Oh God, yes. Right, right, right. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

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So my father-in-law

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actually, how do you go and the fact that they're coming back now kind of scares the heck out of me actually because these things are not that good then and they're not going to be necessarily that good now, but you know,

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[laughs]

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hooray for them that like you goes.

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Well, I actually thought this was kind of cool, right?

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Because, you know, we're seeing a lot of retro redesigns of old cars, whether it was, you know,

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what, 20 years ago when the bug came out,

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the Volkswagen Beetle, and they've just released a new,

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Yeah, that's a different story.

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they just released a new one,

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or are releasing an EV plus a new Carmen Gia.

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I don't know if you've seen those pictures yet.

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No, I have not seen the car again. That could be slick.

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Yeah, yeah.

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exactly but what they've done is

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they take the iconic either look or design elements and reimagine it new and yes the original Hugo was a piece of crap right so much so that siren out live did a great commercial of the Adobe the car that was $199 made out of clay and we'll have a link to that in the show notes but this This, I think they've actually done a good deal.

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Design aspect of it. Now, will it be a worthwhile car? Oh, right. Who knows? Well, you don't know.

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of course not. So you go.

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It's it's been it's been 30 years or maybe even longer since the Hugo was out.

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And they're reimagining manufacturing techniques are significantly better. I mean, there's low-end car products now that are made that are significantly more reliable and more capable than the original Hugo. The original Volkswagen bug was a piece of crap, right?

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remember Beatles and love them and the design and the feel, et cetera. So I'm interested in this one.

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I won't buy one, but I am interested to see how this thing comes out once it's released.

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Cool. So while you've been talking, I've been looking at the Carmen Guilla and the Carmen Guilla is very slick. I mean, the original one was from the Peniferia design shop in Italy, which is how they took a bug, squished it, stretched it, moved it around. And there are some aspects,

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- Yeah.

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- Yeah, I know.

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I guess, of the hood here, very Porsche like right now is my take away from this, which again,

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not surprising because the heritage and all that stuff too. There's some things I'm not like,

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Yeah. Yeah, I heard about that earlier this week from my group of friends, so I was like,

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And super great, but kind of cool.

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Thank you for telling me about that.

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I was like, wow, that's pretty darn neat.

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Yeah, so I'll put the YouTube in.

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I was just looking at-- it's pretty--

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it looks almost a little like an Aston Martin, too,

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but maybe that's because it's silver.

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And I'm thinking Bond is I'm looking at this.

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Little different, yeah, a little different from the--

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Oh, behave. Yes, yes.

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well, different kind of bond there, isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Now, this was one that maybe kind of spurred our thinking into the automotive space, because we hadn't talked about cars in a little while.

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And that is-- there was a wired article that said,

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hey, you know what?

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We're getting physical buttons again.

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And for me, I, for one, welcome our new physical button overlords again, because frankly, I know where all those controls are on my car, and I find them.

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I don't need to think about them.

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Use them, you look at them.

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and our little chat over the week here with Andy.

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And we made the very important point that just like last week with all of the ink displays or the week before, you know, here with buttons, yet again, the games that work.biz team have shown the way and the industry is responding.

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That's right yeah, and we actually talked about it almost two years to the date on

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So, Carm Acres, thank you very much for listening.

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Episode what was it for 15 on bringing buttons back cuz they were pushing our buttons was the episode title and

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Yeah, it's it's funny the I thought there was another thing that Andy brought up that

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They're actually legal requirements in Europe that are changing requiring them to bring them back

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which is good because studies have shown

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that flat screens with no feedback, tactile nature, etc, make people drive just as actually worse than if they were drunk or high because you have to take so much, yeah, and you have to take so much focus off of the road, you're in a car, you're driving, right?

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Right because they hide things because multiple menu items and you got to look at the screen

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Yeah

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Plus plus plus you know if your screen goes now you've lost all these functions I mean, I've got cases on some of my buttons where the lights for example don't work anymore And you know what that's fine the button still works okay, but the lights out and you know what I can live with that I

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You broke a lot of things at once.

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Yeah.

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I can live with that.

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Yep, yep. Switch gears. Nope. Yes.

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All right, so let's switch gears here for a minute, because there was another funny, you know,

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I was a lot about a thing, and we're not talking about the horse-related stuff from Kalosaki, so forget that.

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We are going to talk about the Holy Grail, so I was happy to find the fact that the Holy Grail, Monty Python, one of their iconic films, not the only one, of course, turns Frick and 50. So we can...

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And it's fun to see the 50th reunion. It is still a great movie. It is still one that gets quoted all the time and I need to put this like on my iPad or something so I can watch it when I'm on my next next opportunity. Love this thing.

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It's interesting. I'm currently reading a book on every single episode of the Flying Surface. And it's always amazing to me the number of jokes that are actually based in the Holy Grail from Flying Circus episodes. Yeah, or enhancements or slight tweaks or kind of evolutions of the same jokes. The other thing that it reminded me was I was...

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Those are their retreads.

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I had the absolute pleasure of seeing the original Broadway cast of a spamblet on Broadway in 2005,

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which is the Broadway version of the Holy Grail. And it is... as you say, it's so iconic. There's so many other jokes that come out of that. And what's really interesting about it is, if I remember my history correctly, Holy Grail was the first movie that they made. And they made it what they make five

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I-I don't know the number, you know.

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if you count them all, I've got like three or four of them. So I just enjoy their utter silliness and fun that they did with that.

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So it's the next one I thought about you when I saw it because I knew that you would enjoy the richness of the immersive experience for these new adventure capabilities or TV shows on Apple TV.

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Have you enjoyed them as yet? Is this something that's on your hip parade to go do?

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I've seen every one of them as soon as they come out.

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They've been dribbling them out over the last year.

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Every couple of months, a new one comes out.

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The second one that came out was the parkour in Paris.

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- Mm-hmm, yep.

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And the first one was the walking of the tightrope over the gorge.

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The most recent one was the racing up pikes peak.

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And it was the very first one, and I can't believe we talked about it on the show.

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But it was the very first one that actually caused me just a pinch of motion sickness,

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even though it was fantastic, because you're in a race car with the driver.

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And she's trying to be the first woman to race pikes peak in less than 10 minutes.

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So, and you're going on these hairpin curves up the thing.

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you're sitting next to her in the car and you're going from like...

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zero to 120 down to 60 to 90, back up to 120 down to 60 etc. in these in these curves and my natural tendency when I'm a passenger in a car is to look all around.

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You don't do that at 120 miles an hour in here pin curves. Let me tell you whether it's on a vision pro or in real life it's going to have that little bit of of motion sickness in there but it was fantastic.

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The underwater, the ice diving one was...

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interesting and the person they're interviewing is one of the directors she directed two or three of these videos and the ice diving one was one of them may talk about how they had to approach that because there's really not much depth underwater because there's a big sheet of ice above you and then this murky blue water.

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That's about what you see. So you kind of see where the where the holes are because what they do is have the person doesn't die.

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They cut every 10, 20, 30 meters gaps in the ice in case they need a emergency up because the ice is six or seven inches thick so you're not going to pop up.

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It's still fascinating not only how they film it the stories that they're trying to tell the immersiveness nature of it but the sound quality that they use.

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With the spatial sound etc. And again you can see all these technologies that were built up over 10 years with AirPods with spatial video with with to make these experiences and what's really exciting to me is they just announced the first full length movie that's going to come out.

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I think it's a May 30th which is a documentary on the stories of surrender.

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The soundtrack from YouTube. So that's coming out the end of this month and I'm looking forward to seeing how well a two hour give or take movie does on the vision pro fully immersive.

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Yeah, that should be really intriguing because these seem to me like all proof points, you know this this is how you can yeah, right, right?

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- Yeah, 'cause each one was a little different technique and you start trying to figure out how it works together.

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And I've been following a couple of filmmakers talking about trying to get a hand on the new red cameras when those, it's 'cause they were announced and seeing what does and doesn't work and what they've tried in the past with 3D video that didn't really work and how the experience on the Vision Pro is getting the rethink certain techniques.

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So I'm excited to see it.

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I just really wish they would get critical mass of users and then critical mass of content or reverse that either way, you know, so I'm excited.

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And it was a really good article, I thought it was, well, a great insight in what it takes to do and what they were doing when they were doing it.

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You know, the motion part of it would certainly get to me too, um, and I'm thinking about,

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you know, your description of the Pikes Peak, uh, example, there's a, there's a, there's a film called rendezvous. And I don't remember when it was filmed, but it was some time ago. And it is a film of someone who is on one side of Paris, taking a film in one shot, driving as fast as they can to get to the other side of Paris. And it ends with a kiss because that's the, they had to get there.

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And when you watch that, you're like, you're in it and you're like, you know, that light is red.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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There's somebody who's walking across the road right there. Um, and you kind of get that,

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that sort of feeling and, and all of it. So it, it's got to be the case that such immersive elements where you're holding your breath with the guy underneath the sheet of ice or you're looking down and seeing the, the, what type rope across the gorge, uh, some of these are going to be similar cinematic tricks is like you had when you had three

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12 and 14 TV or video where you had a squirt gun scoring at you or something coming at you.

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So it'll be interesting to see how the U2 example comes in.

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It'd be fun if they interspersed when you said surrender, my mind immediately went to cheap trick and the very first example of rock band and guitar hero and stuff like that. Every time I hear that song that's right where I go. Oh love it love it love it and thank you for that link and we'll make sure that YouTube

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one gets in there so you will be able to find what you're looking for so to speak.

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Next up, we have a short 5 minute interview by one of Andy's colleagues from the Mastodon Space in German. So if you are interested in practicing your German you can give this a listen so this is kind of a fun thing on the world policy.

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We have a couple of fun games that were identified for us this week.

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I like the duck one and duck, this is not like duck duck goose, this is just duck and it is very, very simple.

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social game that you can play.

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with your friends or not and it reminded me a lot of punch buggy except in this case it's a duck. If you find a duck and you say duck, you win and you're not allowed to punch someone when you see a duck. That's not the way this game is played, right?

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But can you punch the person if they say it's a duck and you confirm that it's not a duck?

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It's just a plastic bag.

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Oh, well, you know, maybe. But you are a lot. Yeah, they're there. There's always house rules,

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There probably are variations of the game.

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Michael, you know, and there might be some location based geofenstrawls too, right? Because if

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Especially if there are no ducks in your area.

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yeah, I mean, if you're playing this in Alaska, it may be a little tricky to do, right?

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Well, it was covered.

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The no ducks duck game was covered in the rules.

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Yeah, so give it a look. You know, I did share the peep jousting rules for

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well, we didn't have peep fest anymore. That's long gone, but we sent a care package to my daughter so that she would be able to do peep jousting with her college friends. And so I

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redid some rules for her. That was fun. Echo the dolphin. Michael, I thought you played this game back in the day. Didn't you? You're saying no.

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Never played this game. I have no reference to what it was like.

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I thought it was interesting, you know, another remastered game coming.

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And I actually dug around to see, "Did I ever play it? Could I find it?"

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And I couldn't find that I ever played it.

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So when am I thinking of, because you did tell me one time about some sort of ecological oceanographic kind of game where you spent a lot of time underwater, what was that?

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And I have no reference to match it up again.

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Yeah, in the start-up work that I was doing years ago in 2007 and 2008, we were working with a group that was doing a game where you could experience life living underwater.

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And then they had an immersive game that came out on us.

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It was on Mac, it was on Windows.

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I want to see it was like blue ocean or ocean blue or something like that.

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Yeah, that sounds about right. I'd yeah something like that. Yeah

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Yeah, that were really cool because you kind of did underwater exploration.

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And they kind of reminded me, do you remember the old dolphin screen saver?

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Oh gosh, no. I mean, I remember toasters, but not dolphins.

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Yeah, there was one years and years ago, I want to say like 2000.

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I was like 4 to 2006, that was just, looked like video of dolphins swimming by.

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And not just left to right, but forward and backwards, you know, as if you're like in the water and they were swinging past you over your shoulder swimming away.

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Very relaxing and calm.

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And it had that level of high quality graphics.

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Hmm. Yeah. Okay.

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But, yeah, I didn't play eco dolphin, but I was hoping, you know, one of us had so we could say how does it compare.

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But no idea.

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Be interesting to look for this in the future.

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Yeah. Yeah, exactly. The last one that we have is a little bit of some some Saturn news here. Notice that Minecraft is no longer going to have the VR capabilities to it with their latest update. And so this article we have here is lamenting that particular fact. And apparently there was a very impressive hollow lens demo, which I never watched. But, you know, if you're missing the

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this, there's a quick and easy fix in my mind. Go see the movie. And that's almost going to be like a VR experience. I have listened to the songs from the movie, but I have not gotten to see the movie. Have you seen the movie?

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Have you have you seen the movie?

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I

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No, no, it might be a streaming one for me one day It does say that you can even though they're removing it from the base code if you have the Java version of Minecraft You can still use the Vivecraft mod for the Java game

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Yeah. And somehow, sometimes soon, you'll probably be able to play it on some little E-ink device anyway. So, you know, it'll be there. Don't worry. It'll come back.

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Yeah, right

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But speaking of which speaking of which the long-discussion you guys had on the giant E-ink monitor

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Last week. I actually thought it was a really good idea for people who are overly light-sensitive

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I know people who their monitors are too bright and

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So an E-ink monitor would be just fine

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Yeah, it'll certainly be a handy thing for them, or maybe an e-ink emulator on the monitor they already have as opposed to getting an e-ink monitor itself, right?

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No, no, no, no, because it's light shining in your eye versus an ink monitor where the light is reflected off the screen based off of ambient light.

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And, and I don't think for the person I'm thinking about the refresh rate is not an issue.

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Well, a lot of people do. And once you get used to them, your eye gets stuck on the pixels because they're like, oh my gosh, this is no good. So, let's switch to manufacturing because you don't get e-ink monitors unless you have a factory that can go and produce them at scale for those that want and need said devices. And we have a cool article here from wired talking

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So, I mean, I like big bright giant monitors like I have, so.

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about the fact that the metaverse for all of it, it's not dead yet messaging is really exceeding still in the digital twin space. And the nice thing about the metaverse set of capabilities is that it allows you to manufacture, extrude, create, vibe code your way into three dimensional objects that you can now test and see, for example, the user.

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So, the new version of the car passed through the entire manufacturing process in a plant, because they know all the dimensions of it, and they can rotate it and move it and see what is possible, or where it's going to get hung up, as opposed to doing that for real in a clay model, maybe version that you're carrying through the various plants.

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>> Yeah, this article was one of these, yeah, no kidding,

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not surprising at all to me, right?

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Because I mean, the callback to BMW's work in second life that we talked about, you know,

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a gazillion years ago in BMW's,

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one of the companies using the VR headsets to do manufacturing work, the Lowe's app that I've been, you know, playing with the consumer version of it, and what we find with this type of technology is,

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Um, there's the up front.

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Just kind of early adopter hype world, then there's the, what can I do because it's still too expensive in an enterprise setting, that's what we have here, and then eventually when it gets dirt cheap and enterprise, it comes back to consumer.

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And I think, I think we're in the middle of that cycle and no big surprise, I love the examples that they gave, and I think they tied directly back to the old examples we were doing, you know, in virtual worlds before you got full virtual face.

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Yes. This particular article does spend some time talking about Nvidia and we've talked about in Nvidia's Omniverse before two. So we'll find where we did before, but the intriguing thing in my mind here is that Nvidia's history deals with simulation right from their core beginnings about how do they create their cards and how did they take the biggest bet of their corporate existence in being able to simulate the graphic.

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And that's very much part of their DNA.

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And it's intriguing to see how omniverse is still evolving its way forward.

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And where are they going to head next?

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And how much this could be that digital twinning kind of manufacturing experience and the value that's going to be there.

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So cool, cool stuff.

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All right, we're about at time.

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So we have a very appropriate thing to end on.

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We actually made it.

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Michael, I wasn't sure we're going to.

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Well, I've got some things to talk about this one, so we might need another minute.

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Oh, well, let's let's see what happens, right?

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Yeah, we got this from Andy.

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You've got a Microsoft story.

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Let's let a rip, Michael.

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It's a website on Windows 10 is ending, supported in the end of October this year.

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And this site is all about, if you're a Windows user, let me show you how I can set it up all on Linux.

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And my gut reaction is, if you're truly a Windows user, do you really want to change the Linux I doubt it and.

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There's a company called zero patch dot com that actually is still supporting Windows all the way back to Windows 7.

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And this is actually really, really cool.

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I was listening to a security podcast and what they do is they reverse engineer all of Microsoft's latest updates for security things.

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And they put in runtime patches that resolves them without requiring you to reboot your machine.

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So for like 30 bucks a year.

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You can get a supported version of Windows 7 today.

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Well, so supported, I'm going to put air quotes around that because you have to, you have to believe that operating system security vulnerabilities that regardless are going to be really thorny to be able to resolve.

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Yeah, but- but-

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What they do is they use the same techniques the hackers use to exploit them and figure it out and do runtime patches to resolve that issue.

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And this came from Steve Gibson over at SecurityNow, he's been talking about it for years.

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He actually has a Windows 7 machine still running as a production device.

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And they do Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows the various server additions, et cetera.

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And I found this very interesting because we've been having one of our

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machines in our house, that's a Windows machine. It's been it's originally designed for Windows XP and it's a laptop and it's it's struggling on Windows 10.

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And if I could put it back to Windows 7, I would and I'm thinking about looking at zero patch to drop it back down to Windows 7.

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- Okay, must be nice to have that kind of time.

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[laughs]

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[laughs]

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And for those that are still running that in a productive way,

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I am more power to them,

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knowing what I know about keeping security patches consistent.

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They usually put the patches out sometimes even faster than Microsoft.

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So, it'll be interesting.

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Well, yeah, so we'll link to those guys

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Yep.

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in the show notes too.

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So if you two have a Windows machine lying around

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using on a day-to-day basis,

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and you haven't upgraded your Wii,

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for example, be your web server.

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You know, give these guys a shot, 30 bucks.

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All right, well with that, we're gonna close off for the day.

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I won't be around next time.

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You'll get Andy and Michael, right?

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No. Yes. As far as we know. No. I'm saying what?

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So at least I think that's the case.

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No, yes.

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You're gonna be gone too.

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We'll find out.

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Stay tuned for the next edition of games or work.biz.

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See you, everybody.

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[upbeat music]

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Bye.

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You've been listening to Games@Work.biz, the podcast about gaming technology and play.

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We are part of the Blueberry podcasting network, and we'd like to thank the band,

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[upbeat music]

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Random Encounters for their song, Big Blue.

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You can follow us at our website at Games@Work.biz.

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[upbeat music]

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[music]