WEBVTT STYLE ::cue(v[voice="85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534"]) { color: #DB34F2; } ::cue(v[voice="42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D"]) { color: #0091FF; } ::cue(v[voice="FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF"]) { color: #00D2E0; } ::cue(v[voice="3F2565F4-8E80-42F8-90F7-18FF30737BD7"]) { color: #DB34F2; } 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:20.000 [Music] 2 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:15.780 This is GamesItWork.biz, your weekly podcast about gaming, technology, and play. 3 00:00:15.780 --> 00:00:19.140 Your hosts are Michael Martine, Andy Piper, and Michael Rowe. 4 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:22.740 The thoughts and opinions on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests alone, 5 00:00:22.740 --> 00:00:28.100 and are not the opinions of any organization which they have been, are or may be, affiliated with. 6 00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:36.980 This is episode 531, Games and Such. 7 00:00:38.500 --> 00:00:41.079 [upbeat music] 8 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:52.799 Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Michael wrote here on Friday, and I have the pleasure of having fun 9 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:58.000 Playing with technology and talking games with my friend and use Ian. How are you? 10 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:03.939 I'm very good and very pleased to be back talking to you about games and all the wonderful stuff again. 11 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:07.519 And all that such yes, especially after our you know 12 00:01:08.960 --> 00:01:12.260 Peek behind the curtains one of the great things about podcasting is 13 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:16.000 The audio is so reliable and consistent across every version. 14 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:36.120 We've had all kinds of things kind of conspire for us to actually get a recording going. 15 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:25.120 Absolutely, as our file sharing systems and I said all we need to do now is get printers to work and we'll be we'll be sorted 16 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:45.239 So, we decided what would be really fun is to talk gaming, maybe a little VR, Ian was happy to join. 17 00:01:46.400 --> 00:02:15.000 There's been a lot of interesting stuff going on with gaming lately and one of the things we were talking about right before the show was a game that you and I played together along with with Andy called Demio which was and still is a cross-platform immersive capable board game kind of Dungeons & Dragons like board game where we I think you were on the vision no you're on the quest. 18 00:02:14.500 --> 00:02:16.500 I was on the quest kid. 19 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:45.000 Two I think three Andy was on the two and I was on the vision pro is a lot of fun. They have just released the demo levels for a new version of Demio called Demio Dungeons & Dragons battle grounds or something like that battle battle marked battle marked coming out in November I think November 20th. 20 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:17.500 Three. 21 00:02:36.500 --> 00:02:39.860 Battle marked. Battle marked. Yes. 22 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:55.000 You had a chance to play the demo you've had a chance to look at the video and what do you think? 23 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.599 Well, it was always tried to be Dungeons & Dragons anyway, wasn't it? 24 00:02:54.599 --> 00:03:05.240 So, the fact that they've taken it and got the official licensing and doing it properly and got all the same classes and all the things that will bring all the D&D players in, 25 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.840 I thought was really, really good. 26 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.479 And it looks as good as it was before, so it's a really intriguing game, isn't it? 27 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:43.900 Yeah, the only thing I was disappointed about at least at launch, they have no mention of the Vision Pro or Mac support. It was pretty much Steam PS2 and the meta quest as the not PS2 playstation, right? PSVR, yeah. So I will, if I play it, it'll have to be on my Windows machine running steam. The other thing. 28 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.000 Please take a pass for you, too. 29 00:03:43.500 --> 00:03:57.500 Another thing that was really interesting about it was back in August I was in San Francisco at a work related event and I saw I was walking around downtown San Francisco. I actually saw billboards for Demio. 30 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:57.939 "Oh, that's cool." 31 00:03:57.500 --> 00:04:07.500 Yeah, I think I was the only one who noticed some characters like oh man look at that. That's really cool. So I'm I'm excited. 32 00:03:57.939 --> 00:03:59.860 [laughs] 33 00:04:02.020 --> 00:04:02.860 No. 34 00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:13.819 Is that one, well, there's lots of wonderful features in Demia, but the, when you're in the immersive environment, 35 00:04:15.460 --> 00:04:21.339 whether you're playing it mixed reality or virtually and sort of much same thing really, 36 00:04:21.339 --> 00:04:26.339 but the other players, you see around the table 37 00:04:26.500 --> 00:04:28.180 are avatars for them. 38 00:04:28.180 --> 00:04:30.060 They're kind of a hat in a hand, 39 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:32.579 so you can see roughly where somebody is. 40 00:04:32.579 --> 00:04:41.620 But as a user, if you scale in and out and zoom into the floor level, rather than looking at the overall map level, 41 00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:43.540 the size of your avatar changes, 42 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:49.339 so that your compatriots can see whether you zoomed in or whether you're taking that whole level. 43 00:04:49.339 --> 00:04:55.740 And that's just a really subtle little tweak to, which doesn't happen very often. 44 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:59.620 There's been a few VR things that have attempted that, 45 00:04:59.620 --> 00:05:03.019 but I really liked that once I realized it was happening, 46 00:05:03.019 --> 00:05:05.579 'cause I saw it and didn't register it, 47 00:05:05.579 --> 00:05:06.939 'cause it was so good. 48 00:05:06.939 --> 00:05:08.939 It wasn't like an in-your-face effect, 49 00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:09.500 Yeah 50 00:05:09.819 --> 00:05:17.120 It it almost it was it was like one of those design elements that becomes extremely obvious once you see it 51 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:19.079 Yes, that's the one. 52 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:25.579 Right Yeah, yeah, I thought that was amazing because I remember suddenly I saw you know little Ian 53 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:28.259 [laughing] 54 00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:31.579 Little Ian head in hands floating around the bottom of the world. I'm like Ian what the heck are you doing? 55 00:05:31.579 --> 00:05:35.420 That was so cool the other fun part about it is you know there 56 00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:42.620 I'm of a certain age. I believe you are of a certain age who probably played Dungeons and Dragons in a high school 57 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:45.339 And you know in the parents basement 58 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.000 Yeah. 59 00:05:46.220 --> 00:05:52.779 And the great thing about the game is the setting is in a basement and you see all this other content around you that you would have seen 60 00:05:53.019 --> 00:05:58.860 Back then various board games you see the the modules for other games that you could play etc 61 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:07.480 That was very cool. And I mean, talking about being a certain age, after last week's show, 62 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:18.120 I need to know whether you found Auckland yet or not. 63 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:37.959 Oh, yes, it's been that long. So yes, I found work town. Not only did I find work town is I kicked the big bad orcs, but who runs work town? Got my my information I needed to get down through the crystal depths into another down deep depths of the minds of Moria. 64 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:41.000 And ultimately, now have the pick. 65 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:57.000 The pickaxe that I need of the first age so that I can mine granite instead of just stone and then the first thing I did is I found this great, you know, mine section and it's like nope, you can't get adamantium or adamant. 66 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:08.000 I can't, nithroll stuff because I have the wrong, I have the wrong pickaxe, I need another one that's even better. 67 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:04.000 Yeah, that one. 68 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:08.220 [laughing] 69 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.959 Uh, but it's fun. Yes. Yes. 70 00:07:08.220 --> 00:07:11.660 Another pickaxe, another pickaxe. 71 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:40.000 Uh, but, uh, it's, it's loads of fun. Uh, so for those who don't follow this show every week. Uh, and if you do, you didn't the last couple and we apologize for that. Uh, but, uh, the game I've been playing is kind of, I was talking to Andy at the time about it. This is my, you know, I just need the relax game. Uh, which is the return to the minds of Moria. It's on the epic store. It was a free game. Uh, there evidently is some paid content, but I've never seen a lot of this game. 72 00:07:41.000 --> 00:08:10.959 in any of it and I've never had a need to buy any of it. So there is that. Um, and you play a dwarf after the events of the Lord of the Rings and you get to go back and try to reestablish the kingdom of Moria in the minds of Moria. So you're, you're digging out some of the stuff that has fallen down. You're trying to rebuild the, uh, the housing, the bridges. 73 00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:41.000 You're clearing out the orcs and goblins who have taken up residence. Um, I took out a cave troll. That was tough. And it's, it's, it's kind of fun and relaxing. It's, and here's the worst thing about work down. It, it literally was right around the corner from where I had set up a base and I just kept going the other way. 74 00:08:17.500 --> 00:08:20.500 [Laughter] 75 00:08:35.500 --> 00:08:52.860 so all your discussion about it being procedurally generated and AI's trying to help you and it's like you were looking the wrong way, oh how often have we done that in game? 76 00:08:41.000 --> 00:09:11.000 "Was it, it had an?" Yes, I, I, I, I went right instead of left. How often have we done that in life? Uh, the, the, the other thing I was, I was going to ask you about, um, was Apple announced the vision pro with the M5 this week. Uh, and, and I know you don't have a vision pro. 77 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:59.340 That's it, that's absolutely it, oh that's crazy, oh that's crazy. 78 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:41.000 You're trying to convince you to get one just like every other friend that I have so that I can actually, you know, vision pro together. Uh, but I know it's a bit of a pricey, uh, pricey price tag for that. Uh, what did you think? Has your chance to look at what they've announced? Does that really change anything for your current situation? 79 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:54.200 No, because they're still ridiculously expensive and I do appreciate that they integrate with the Apple ecosystem and everything, but what I can do with the Quest, both stand alone and plugged into my gaming rig, I would say give me all the fun that I need. 80 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:59.580 I don't really want to be working in it just yet. 81 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:18.200 It's an unusual thing about saying, oh yes, it'll use the PSVR controllers as well and you'll be able to buy them for what it's like, what, I mean, what, yeah, so that was unusual, 82 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:10.919 Yes. $250. 83 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:30.620 but there's been a lot of very, very mild stuff, isn't it, they're not going to bother and they've tried to do glasses now because they're trying to keep up with meta, which which I find weird, but yeah. 84 00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:34.000 Yeah, I don't have a problem with them trying to come out with classes. 85 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.000 I mean, that's great. 86 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.460 But again, I don't think it's the same use case, right? 87 00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:38.460 No, it's not. 88 00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:45.200 The vision pro, just like the meta quest and PSVR, right? 89 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:51.120 These are much more fully immersive environments. 90 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.279 The vision pro, yes, one of its big things when it first came out, 91 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:59.000 the pass-through mode, so you're not completely restricted from the world. 92 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:57.840 - Yeah. 93 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:00.519 And other subs said, hey, that's a good one. 94 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:21.500 Good idea. We should add that, too. Right? But the fact that it becomes an immersive environment for focusing your work, which is what I use it for, says, the meta quest doesn't meet my needs. 95 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:07.279 - Well, that value did it first, commercially. 96 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:28.500 I have no need for that. To me, that would be if I just wanted to get a gaming rig, and I almost did that a couple of years ago. 97 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:30.500 but then the vision process. 98 00:11:30.500 --> 00:11:58.500 It's the exact spec bump you would do and not have to do anything else, right? It's a spec bump. Is it a nice spec bump? Yes. 99 00:11:44.500 --> 00:11:45.340 - Yes. 100 00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:46.179 - Yes. 101 00:11:53.500 --> 00:11:55.500 Yeah 102 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:00.500 I mean going from an M-2. 103 00:12:00.500 --> 00:12:05.500 to an M-5, that is a huge jump. 104 00:12:05.500 --> 00:12:13.500 But the downside is one you can't trade in your old one. 105 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:14.500 [laughter] 106 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:16.500 So you're paying the full amount. 107 00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:22.500 There's not a huge aftermarket for the old one because it's a dev kit and there's not a lot of people clamoring for a dev kit. 108 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:30.539 So yeah, if you're heavy duty developer on this fully invested I think go for it otherwise as much as 109 00:12:30.500 --> 00:12:49.500 I think that's what I hate to say it yeah unless you want to buy mine right and get the m the m2 and and at only I'll knock off 20% off the original price and then yes yes 110 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.559 Oh, well, that's, you know, I'll, I'll consider it. 111 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:44.879 Well, well, that's, that's very kind. It's very kind of you. 112 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.279 Now, I, I mean, I, I think the thing is that 113 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:57.279 is if you work in the Apple ecosystem, or you have a Mac to work on, then it's all right. 114 00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:03.600 But for, for some of us that have, have to use PC laptops to work. 115 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:17.000 It just doesn't become a thing, and neither is the quest for that matter, because it's too difficult to get all these things on corporate networks and certified. And I just want to play with things. 116 00:13:14.500 --> 00:13:44.500 now you said yeah and now you said the magic words corporate networks so one of the things is like I said I really like the vision probe because I can immerse myself the the company I started working for back in May literally right as I onboarded had just started their corporate technology lockdown they're all all mac shop, which is cool, but you are required to use it. 117 00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:39.500 [Laughter] 118 00:13:44.500 --> 00:13:53.500 And so needless to say, there's no handoff between devices, right? 119 00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:57.500 None of your personal stuff, things, et cetera, it's fully isolated. 120 00:13:57.500 --> 00:14:07.500 So I can't use the vision pro with the device because different Apple ID and I'm not about to put my corporate stuff on that. 121 00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:13.500 So I was, there's a, there's a Slack channel of people trying to get around stuff and they're like, 122 00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:29.500 I've installed duet, the duet app, which allows you to basically stream a screen to another device and they've got a version for the Mac and they have a version for the vision pro. 123 00:14:29.500 --> 00:14:33.500 And I've talked to a couple of devs in the company and they've got it working. 124 00:14:33.500 --> 00:14:35.500 They say it's kind of flaky, but it's working. 125 00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:40.500 So I tried to set it up and it's not working on my end. 126 00:14:39.000 --> 00:15:00.039 I mean, I am an early adopter, obviously, but just sometimes get to the point of, I can't be bothered with all that, I just want to just make the thing work, which is what happened. 127 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:44.340 And so I've been working with the duet people to say, 128 00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:46.179 you guys got to get this work in. 129 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:09.000 I had been holding off on glasses and it wasn't till about six months ago, I bought the the Raybird Metas. I know there's new ones and the visions and version two. 130 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:41.000 But I bought them because I could go into the opticians where I had my prescription done and try them on and then buy them and have them I mean they had to ship them off to to rob and to put lenses in but with transition lenses for sunglasses but also the full very focal thing and it was just oh they just work so so I have my my spare pair of 131 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:33.500 Yep 132 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:54.519 those to give around with and if I go for a walk and take photos and ask questions if I've got any phone signal and and it's just it just is pure pure working stuff 133 00:15:48.000 --> 00:16:07.399 Well, yeah, it's funny, most of the use cases I hear from people using the meta-ray bands are what I used to do with Google Glass. 134 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:35.159 well yeah of course but yeah well that's that's a bit but the my ones I've got I've switched it to the Dame Judy Dench voice so there's an AI version of Dame Judy and official one so I have M from James Bond in my in my bone conduction so when I ask for information it feels like I'm on a secret mission the safe the way. 135 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.879 Take pictures, have a little bit of information, and have the audio feed. 136 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:23.960 [laughs] 137 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:24.860 Yes. 138 00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:26.779 [inaudible] 139 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:40.960 well, and it is absolutely brilliant. And of course, with it being talking to an AI anyway, 140 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:47.320 and it's now the limb on the other end, you can, you can ask it to give you a mission. So, 141 00:16:47.320 --> 00:17:04.680 she makes one up, and it sounds like her, and it is, and it's in my head, and it just makes me smile. So, those things, aside from the translation you need stuff which I'm has messed around with, which is weird, and the phy eye stuff, it's very good at it. 142 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:16.680 And being hands-free, like when I go down to my green house and start faffing around with something, it's, um, it's all very playful, and, but just works, and they're very good, well, 143 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:21.559 I think the lens is in, in my, um, Ray bands, a better than the lens is in my 144 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:27.160 regular glasses, I've got on at the moment. It's just, I had to have two pairs of glasses, I knew, 145 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:31.960 because I couldn't be wondering, that kind of cubicle last thing, couldn't be wandering around with them 146 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:34.680 on all the time. 147 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:41.000 they're not photographing things, I have to take them off in certain situations. 148 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.000 All right, yeah, yeah. 149 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:45.000 So wandering through the country, no worries, not going to be worried. 150 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:51.000 Wandering through the supermarket, listening to stuff and clicking, shopping lists, no worries. 151 00:17:51.000 --> 00:18:03.000 But you know, if you go in a changing room or something, you really don't want to be a toilet. Yeah, I mean it's just, it's just knobs and fun. 152 00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:59.859 >> You don't even want to think about that. 153 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.000 But it's it's all good. 154 00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:12.579 Well, it's interesting because one of the things that I find personally with various AI tools, 155 00:18:12.579 --> 00:18:16.980 et cetera, we use a lot of them at work and they're really good at what they do. 156 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:26.500 But all the AI vendors want you to interact via voice, right? 157 00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:32.019 That's the big thing, become your assistant that you're chatting with. 158 00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:39.059 And I find it, I rarely want to talk to my computer. 159 00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:42.579 I don't want to interact via voice because that means it's listening. 160 00:18:42.579 --> 00:18:49.380 I would rather hit a command key, pop up a window, type something in, get a response back, et cetera. 161 00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:56.460 And I'm wondering there's a social acceptance that's slowly happening, just like all the cameras and everything else of people. 162 00:18:57.500 --> 00:19:02.500 Being willing to have something listening all the time and asking it questions. 163 00:19:02.500 --> 00:19:10.500 And the stigma to me was I remember early on on the Apple Watch when Siri was enabled on it. 164 00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:15.500 I was in a meeting with the general manager of the product division I was in at the time. 165 00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:25.500 And we were having a fairly confidential strategic conversation about some product work and possible partnerships. 166 00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:33.500 And Siri kept piping up saying, "I'm sorry, I didn't get that." 167 00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:31.740 [laughing] 168 00:19:33.500 --> 00:19:36.500 And to me, that's just horrible. 169 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:38.500 It's like people wearing the ray bands. 170 00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:42.500 And if you're having a conversation with somebody and you don't notice it. 171 00:19:42.500 --> 00:19:48.500 Now granted, you won't hear when it says to that person through the bone conduction, "Hey, I'm sorry, I didn't get that." 172 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:54.500 But. 173 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:59.500 I mean, it depends how loud you have it turned up, but it's surprisingly how much it, I mean, it's not surprising because it's not your near, but it does leak and people do wonder what an earth's slat going past. 174 00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:06.940 Yeah, so there's there's these types of kind of societal things that I think are interesting and how that will play into 175 00:20:07.259 --> 00:20:11.539 The usage and more usage of various AI listening to us 176 00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:20.380 I've found when I'm with the family and I've got them on and I want to ask it a question. 177 00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:33.500 They now know I'm going to talk to it because I turn my head away and look down and unless I'm looking at something and I go, "Hey, matter blah blah blah blah" because so often I was like, "Sorry, what were you saying? 178 00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:34.500 What did you say something?" 179 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:41.099 And it's like, "No, I'm talking to the..." And because then you say, "No, I'm talking to this" and then it listens to you saying that and thinks that's the question that 180 00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:42.500 [laughs] 181 00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:55.180 it and you end up in these conversations with three of you, but only one of you knows there's three of you in it and that's the kind of weird side effect of it. 182 00:20:51.500 --> 00:21:03.460 I remember a TV show, a TV movie back in the '70s called "Sibble" about a woman who was talking with like 13 of her. 183 00:20:55.180 --> 00:21:08.779 Oh, sibble, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, no, it's very much like that, but it's alright as you get older people expect that or is I think. 184 00:21:03.460 --> 00:21:06.220 Yeah. 185 00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:21.460 So, there was something else I saw and I'd love to get your perspective on this and I'm I'm sure we have a link somewhere in various shows. 186 00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:31.500 And there was an acquisition recently of a gaming simulation company by one of the AI vendors. 187 00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:41.500 Looking at the simulation, have you heard that, I think it was perplexity maybe, or anthropic buying one of the game simulation environments? 188 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:51.599 I think a lot of the AI generation stuff is moving to the next phase of being able to generate worlds. 189 00:21:51.599 --> 00:22:04.920 So Googler doing it, mid-journey has been talking about the holodeck thing for a while and there's lots of little tools that do those things. 190 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:10.960 And in the industrial space people are doing much more. 191 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:18.680 kind of game engine style simulations of things as part of the whole AI and digital twin and trading robots and all that. 192 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:24.759 So it's not really a surprise that it's coming from going from base direction. 193 00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:34.359 So an AI company saying that we need some simulation stuff makes sense and likewise simulation stuff saying we need some AI stuff. 194 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:40.920 And so yeah it's going to be, I mean it's still it. 195 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:52.880 We don't really use really interesting, but it's just going to get even more interesting. This stuff being able to, I mean you mentioned the procedural generated stuff you had with old time. 196 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.000 I was gonna take it back to that. I'm glad you did it for me. 197 00:22:52.880 --> 00:23:06.759 Yeah well, and so that's doing that well can just be pure procedural content, but doing that kind of procedural with the hint of AI. 198 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:11.000 that is a bit of context on what's happening, what the story lines spell. 199 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:23.000 It's not just to be not just some random forest you just wander in, it's nothing to do with anything, because you're wearing an urban environment, all that stuff, that's going to be, that's going to be fun. 200 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:40.000 I don't know how we'll have some really bad games guaranteed. There'll be some awful, awful, awful ones, and then something will go boom, and it will be the poster child for that generation of games. 201 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.599 Are you still playing what is it? 202 00:23:41.000 --> 00:24:00.000 Oh yes, I can't stop, so that came out in 2016, that's nine years old, that game, and they are still doing fully procedural, and they're doing huge, huge updates all the time as well to the whole experience. 203 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.480 Yeah, but it was fully procedural 204 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:11.000 And they kind of stopped-ish, stop playing it a little bit, every now and then, it's my go-to relaxation game, but there's so many other things to play. 205 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:40.000 They just dropped this month ago, some of this Corvette patch, or enhancement, which meant rather than just flying one of the multitude of little fighters that you'd see in and zoom around, and you can put all different stuff on it and things and custom them up, and get the right loadout, but they changed it so that, instead, or as well, you could build spaceships from bits. 206 00:24:41.000 --> 00:25:08.000 And these components that you could barter and dig up and find in places, and it utterly changes the feel of it, because you know, sat in this cockpit, zooming through space, and you may be doing the space fighting or mining something or trying to get somewhere, or the multitude of storyline things have got, but you can get out of the seat and walk around your spaceship now. 207 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.039 That was really really really good, just on the X 208 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:40.880 box on 2D screen but in VR is like oh my god I've got my own spaceship, I mean it just that I mean they've had they've had freights and things before but it's just something very special about some of the bits they've got in here and and and even and when you're in space because you're in a space you anyway you can open the back hatch and you can spacewalk out of your ship so you've gone from this chained into this little thing. 209 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:46.759 to this, well, I'm just going to go and wander around and float in space for a while. 210 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:50.000 And you know, you start to ice up a little bit after a while, 211 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.519 but it is fantastic. 212 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:56.319 And the number, yes, you can do the whole thing, 213 00:25:53.000 --> 00:26:00.000 And you can do that in VR, too, and you can look back and in, oh, awesome. 214 00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.519 the whole thing, the whole thing, 215 00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:02.440 but it's the level of detail inside these corvettes, 216 00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:07.440 like there's three or four different kind of graphical styles 217 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:09.400 to things. 218 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:10.940 of plush ambassador one. 219 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:24.400 But there's a nutrient station or a kind of cooking thing that you can bolt inside so you can custom the inside as well. 220 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:39.480 And on one of them on the base one you end up with this little bench seat and a little round table with some sort of looks a bit like a dart board sort of shape and color. 221 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:42.420 Yeah, you can play space chess. 222 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.480 and clearly... 223 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:57.359 clearly it's the Star Wars one I mean it's just oh wow and then other bits of it look like they're from Alien and things like that so so they've they've a you know it's a labor of love from them from Hello Gangs 224 00:26:55.500 --> 00:27:05.500 So, so speaking of cool space stuff, and you mentioned alien, and I know we've only got like two minutes left. 225 00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:09.500 Have you been watching alien Earth? 226 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.000 Not yet, I was too scared too 227 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:14.500 Okay. 228 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:17.599 It's on list plus plus I've been playing Battlefield 6 instead as well because that came out last weekend and 229 00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:20.500 Okay. Okay. Well, you got to have set those priorities. 230 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:22.160 And and yeah, and I 231 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.039 Battlefield 6 is incredible 232 00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:35.880 from a It's electronic arts and electronic arts just got bought for 55 million or billion dollars by billion. Yes, they're not being and 233 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.000 Billion 234 00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:37.960 them which is egg it. 235 00:27:38.000 --> 00:28:07.920 again inside an incredible. But the level of environment destruction that happens in the war environment in Battlefield is incredible. So you quite often you know, college you get little bullet holes and things in the old tree form over some time. But this, the whole front of a building will fall off and just crumble. And so you've got you know some bad guy in a machine gun nest or something and you take little pot shots at them or you just send a tank in 236 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:23.720 just explosive. And it just goes all the way down and it's some very clever. 237 00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:11.259 [laughing] 238 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:14.759 - Wow. 239 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:20.880 One of the most amazing things to me and I remember us working together, gosh. 240 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:32.519 Almost 20 years ago and talking about the size of the gaming industry at that point was already getting bigger than Hollywood, right? 241 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:32.480 Yeah, yeah. 242 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:36.000 And now it's so far past it. 243 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:39.240 and you think of a 54. 244 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:45.000 5 billion dollar acquisition and you go, well, you know, maybe that does make sense. 245 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:52.779 Yeah, I mean it's I mean EA's got a lot of a lot of IP obviously a lot of very popular games and 246 00:28:51.500 --> 00:29:02.500 And if you create a game that is as addictive and as engaging as something like No Man's Sky, 247 00:29:02.500 --> 00:29:07.000 which is not EA, you've got people playing it for 10 plus years. 248 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.339 - Yeah. 249 00:29:06.940 --> 00:29:07.779 - Absolutely. 250 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:09.500 I mean, I'm still doing a world of aircraft, right? 251 00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:10.259 - Yeah. 252 00:29:09.500 --> 00:29:13.000 And that came out in what 2003, 2004. 253 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:17.500 So that's 20 years IP and it's just printing money for them. 254 00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:19.980 So from an acquisition perspective, 255 00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:23.460 Well, a weird thing with No Man's Sky is that they're managing to do it on new sales, 256 00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:28.859 effectively. There's no subscription. There's no DLC that you pay for. 257 00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:35.539 There's stuff just arrives. And it said it's a fantastic... 258 00:29:35.539 --> 00:29:39.579 The biomes and stuff that they've added and some of the planets you get to look at, 259 00:29:39.579 --> 00:29:41.259 because every time you arrive at a planet, 260 00:29:41.259 --> 00:29:45.140 basically maths generating it for the first time and that seeds it. 261 00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:47.740 and then it becomes part of the entire joint universe. 262 00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:53.259 So somebody else might actually land on that planet, just mindblowing. 263 00:29:53.259 --> 00:30:00.819 But, yeah, all from a greed monetization thing that many games have become, 264 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:06.539 we're here here, have a loot box here, have this by this pointless bit of rubbish, 265 00:30:06.539 --> 00:30:15.500 to something that's crafted and loved by the developers and by all the people it just is just wonderful. 266 00:30:15.500 --> 00:30:18.220 because now it's even more used to generate content in it with all these. 267 00:30:18.500 --> 00:30:23.299 Crazy ships that people are building. It's wonderful. 268 00:30:21.500 --> 00:30:32.420 Well, well on that note Ian, it has been crazy fun and engaging catching up with you on the world of gaming and VR and all this fun stuff. 269 00:30:32.420 --> 00:30:41.259 If people want to follow you online, is there any place that they should go? 270 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:39.619 Oh well, just look for a predator, that's my handle. 271 00:30:39.619 --> 00:30:50.500 Or, I mean, I still occasionally blog on feedingedge.co.uk, but my handle's a predator so you can find me almost everywhere. 272 00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:03.039 anywhere. Yes. Well, great. Uh, everybody else, uh, we appreciate your listening. Uh, hopefully we'll be back again next week. I will not be here next week, but, uh, my other co hosts may, um, 273 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.599 if not, it'll be two weeks from now before our next episode. We really appreciate your feedback, 274 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:19.039 follow us over at Mastodon, uh, and games at work, biz. And, uh, otherwise come to our website at games@work.biz and we'd love to hear from you. Thanks. 275 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.579 [upbeat music] 276 00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:25.799 You've been listening to games@work.biz, the podcast about gaming technology and play. 277 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:29.400 We are part of the Blueberry podcasting network, and we'd like to thank the band, 278 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:32.200 Random Encounters for their song, Big Blue. 279 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:36.400 You can follow us at our website at games@work.biz. 280 00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:01.500 [audience applauds]