3F2565F4-8E80-42F8-90F7-18FF30737BD7: [Music]
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: This is GamesItWork.biz, your weekly podcast about gaming, technology, and play.
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: Your hosts are Michael Martine, Andy Piper, and Michael Rowe.
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: The thoughts and opinions on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests alone,
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: and are not the opinions of any organization which they have been, are or may be, affiliated with.
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: This is episode 531, Games and Such.
3F2565F4-8E80-42F8-90F7-18FF30737BD7: [upbeat music]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Michael wrote here on Friday, and I have the pleasure of having fun
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Playing with technology and talking games with my friend and use Ian. How are you?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I'm very good and very pleased to be back talking to you about games and all the wonderful stuff again.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And all that such yes, especially after our you know
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Peek behind the curtains one of the great things about podcasting is
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: The audio is so reliable and consistent across every version.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: We've had all kinds of things kind of conspire for us to actually get a recording going.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Absolutely, as our file sharing systems and I said all we need to do now is get printers to work and we'll be we'll be sorted
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So, we decided what would be really fun is to talk gaming, maybe a little VR, Ian was happy to join.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: There's been a lot of interesting stuff going on with gaming lately and one of the things we were talking about right before the show was a game that you and I played together along with with Andy called Demio which was and still is a cross-platform immersive capable board game kind of Dungeons & Dragons like board game where we I think you were on the vision no you're on the quest.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I was on the quest kid.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Two I think three Andy was on the two and I was on the vision pro is a lot of fun. They have just released the demo levels for a new version of Demio called Demio Dungeons & Dragons battle grounds or something like that battle battle marked battle marked coming out in November I think November 20th.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Three.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Battle marked. Battle marked. Yes.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: You had a chance to play the demo you've had a chance to look at the video and what do you think?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Well, it was always tried to be Dungeons & Dragons anyway, wasn't it?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: So, the fact that they've taken it and got the official licensing and doing it properly and got all the same classes and all the things that will bring all the D&D players in,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I thought was really, really good.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And it looks as good as it was before, so it's a really intriguing game, isn't it?
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah, the only thing I was disappointed about at least at launch, they have no mention of the Vision Pro or Mac support. It was pretty much Steam PS2 and the meta quest as the not PS2 playstation, right? PSVR, yeah. So I will, if I play it, it'll have to be on my Windows machine running steam. The other thing.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Please take a pass for you, too.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Another thing that was really interesting about it was back in August I was in San Francisco at a work related event and I saw I was walking around downtown San Francisco. I actually saw billboards for Demio.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: "Oh, that's cool."
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah, I think I was the only one who noticed some characters like oh man look at that. That's really cool. So I'm I'm excited.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: [laughs]
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: No.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Is that one, well, there's lots of wonderful features in Demia, but the, when you're in the immersive environment,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: whether you're playing it mixed reality or virtually and sort of much same thing really,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: but the other players, you see around the table
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: are avatars for them.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: They're kind of a hat in a hand,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: so you can see roughly where somebody is.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: But as a user, if you scale in and out and zoom into the floor level, rather than looking at the overall map level,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: the size of your avatar changes,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: so that your compatriots can see whether you zoomed in or whether you're taking that whole level.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And that's just a really subtle little tweak to, which doesn't happen very often.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: There's been a few VR things that have attempted that,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: but I really liked that once I realized it was happening,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: 'cause I saw it and didn't register it,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: 'cause it was so good.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: It wasn't like an in-your-face effect,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: It it almost it was it was like one of those design elements that becomes extremely obvious once you see it
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Yes, that's the one.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Right Yeah, yeah, I thought that was amazing because I remember suddenly I saw you know little Ian
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: [laughing]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Little Ian head in hands floating around the bottom of the world. I'm like Ian what the heck are you doing?
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: That was so cool the other fun part about it is you know there
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I'm of a certain age. I believe you are of a certain age who probably played Dungeons and Dragons in a high school
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And you know in the parents basement
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Yeah.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And the great thing about the game is the setting is in a basement and you see all this other content around you that you would have seen
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Back then various board games you see the the modules for other games that you could play etc
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: That was very cool. And I mean, talking about being a certain age, after last week's show,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I need to know whether you found Auckland yet or not.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Oh, yes, it's been that long. So yes, I found work town. Not only did I find work town is I kicked the big bad orcs, but who runs work town? Got my my information I needed to get down through the crystal depths into another down deep depths of the minds of Moria.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And ultimately, now have the pick.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: The pickaxe that I need of the first age so that I can mine granite instead of just stone and then the first thing I did is I found this great, you know, mine section and it's like nope, you can't get adamantium or adamant.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I can't, nithroll stuff because I have the wrong, I have the wrong pickaxe, I need another one that's even better.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Yeah, that one.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: [laughing]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Uh, but it's fun. Yes. Yes.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Another pickaxe, another pickaxe.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Uh, but, uh, it's, it's loads of fun. Uh, so for those who don't follow this show every week. Uh, and if you do, you didn't the last couple and we apologize for that. Uh, but, uh, the game I've been playing is kind of, I was talking to Andy at the time about it. This is my, you know, I just need the relax game. Uh, which is the return to the minds of Moria. It's on the epic store. It was a free game. Uh, there evidently is some paid content, but I've never seen a lot of this game.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: in any of it and I've never had a need to buy any of it. So there is that. Um, and you play a dwarf after the events of the Lord of the Rings and you get to go back and try to reestablish the kingdom of Moria in the minds of Moria. So you're, you're digging out some of the stuff that has fallen down. You're trying to rebuild the, uh, the housing, the bridges.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: You're clearing out the orcs and goblins who have taken up residence. Um, I took out a cave troll. That was tough. And it's, it's, it's kind of fun and relaxing. It's, and here's the worst thing about work down. It, it literally was right around the corner from where I had set up a base and I just kept going the other way.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: [Laughter]
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: so all your discussion about it being procedurally generated and AI's trying to help you and it's like you were looking the wrong way, oh how often have we done that in game?
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: "Was it, it had an?" Yes, I, I, I, I went right instead of left. How often have we done that in life? Uh, the, the, the other thing I was, I was going to ask you about, um, was Apple announced the vision pro with the M5 this week. Uh, and, and I know you don't have a vision pro.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: That's it, that's absolutely it, oh that's crazy, oh that's crazy.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: You're trying to convince you to get one just like every other friend that I have so that I can actually, you know, vision pro together. Uh, but I know it's a bit of a pricey, uh, pricey price tag for that. Uh, what did you think? Has your chance to look at what they've announced? Does that really change anything for your current situation?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: No, because they're still ridiculously expensive and I do appreciate that they integrate with the Apple ecosystem and everything, but what I can do with the Quest, both stand alone and plugged into my gaming rig, I would say give me all the fun that I need.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I don't really want to be working in it just yet.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: It's an unusual thing about saying, oh yes, it'll use the PSVR controllers as well and you'll be able to buy them for what it's like, what, I mean, what, yeah, so that was unusual,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yes. $250.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: but there's been a lot of very, very mild stuff, isn't it, they're not going to bother and they've tried to do glasses now because they're trying to keep up with meta, which which I find weird, but yeah.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah, I don't have a problem with them trying to come out with classes.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I mean, that's great.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: But again, I don't think it's the same use case, right?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: No, it's not.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: The vision pro, just like the meta quest and PSVR, right?
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: These are much more fully immersive environments.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: The vision pro, yes, one of its big things when it first came out,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: the pass-through mode, so you're not completely restricted from the world.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: - Yeah.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And other subs said, hey, that's a good one.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Good idea. We should add that, too. Right? But the fact that it becomes an immersive environment for focusing your work, which is what I use it for, says, the meta quest doesn't meet my needs.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: - Well, that value did it first, commercially.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I have no need for that. To me, that would be if I just wanted to get a gaming rig, and I almost did that a couple of years ago.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: but then the vision process.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: It's the exact spec bump you would do and not have to do anything else, right? It's a spec bump. Is it a nice spec bump? Yes.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: - Yes.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Yeah
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I mean going from an M-2.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: to an M-5, that is a huge jump.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: But the downside is one you can't trade in your old one.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: [laughter]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So you're paying the full amount.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: There's not a huge aftermarket for the old one because it's a dev kit and there's not a lot of people clamoring for a dev kit.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So yeah, if you're heavy duty developer on this fully invested I think go for it otherwise as much as
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I think that's what I hate to say it yeah unless you want to buy mine right and get the m the m2 and and at only I'll knock off 20% off the original price and then yes yes
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Oh, well, that's, you know, I'll, I'll consider it.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Well, well, that's, that's very kind. It's very kind of you.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Now, I, I mean, I, I think the thing is that
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: is if you work in the Apple ecosystem, or you have a Mac to work on, then it's all right.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: But for, for some of us that have, have to use PC laptops to work.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: It just doesn't become a thing, and neither is the quest for that matter, because it's too difficult to get all these things on corporate networks and certified. And I just want to play with things.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: now you said yeah and now you said the magic words corporate networks so one of the things is like I said I really like the vision probe because I can immerse myself the the company I started working for back in May literally right as I onboarded had just started their corporate technology lockdown they're all all mac shop, which is cool, but you are required to use it.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: [Laughter]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And so needless to say, there's no handoff between devices, right?
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: None of your personal stuff, things, et cetera, it's fully isolated.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So I can't use the vision pro with the device because different Apple ID and I'm not about to put my corporate stuff on that.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So I was, there's a, there's a Slack channel of people trying to get around stuff and they're like,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I've installed duet, the duet app, which allows you to basically stream a screen to another device and they've got a version for the Mac and they have a version for the vision pro.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And I've talked to a couple of devs in the company and they've got it working.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: They say it's kind of flaky, but it's working.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So I tried to set it up and it's not working on my end.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I mean, I am an early adopter, obviously, but just sometimes get to the point of, I can't be bothered with all that, I just want to just make the thing work, which is what happened.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And so I've been working with the duet people to say,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: you guys got to get this work in.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I had been holding off on glasses and it wasn't till about six months ago, I bought the the Raybird Metas. I know there's new ones and the visions and version two.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: But I bought them because I could go into the opticians where I had my prescription done and try them on and then buy them and have them I mean they had to ship them off to to rob and to put lenses in but with transition lenses for sunglasses but also the full very focal thing and it was just oh they just work so so I have my my spare pair of
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yep
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: those to give around with and if I go for a walk and take photos and ask questions if I've got any phone signal and and it's just it just is pure pure working stuff
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Well, yeah, it's funny, most of the use cases I hear from people using the meta-ray bands are what I used to do with Google Glass.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: well yeah of course but yeah well that's that's a bit but the my ones I've got I've switched it to the Dame Judy Dench voice so there's an AI version of Dame Judy and official one so I have M from James Bond in my in my bone conduction so when I ask for information it feels like I'm on a secret mission the safe the way.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Take pictures, have a little bit of information, and have the audio feed.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: [laughs]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yes.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: [inaudible]
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: well, and it is absolutely brilliant. And of course, with it being talking to an AI anyway,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: and it's now the limb on the other end, you can, you can ask it to give you a mission. So,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: she makes one up, and it sounds like her, and it is, and it's in my head, and it just makes me smile. So, those things, aside from the translation you need stuff which I'm has messed around with, which is weird, and the phy eye stuff, it's very good at it.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And being hands-free, like when I go down to my green house and start faffing around with something, it's, um, it's all very playful, and, but just works, and they're very good, well,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I think the lens is in, in my, um, Ray bands, a better than the lens is in my
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: regular glasses, I've got on at the moment. It's just, I had to have two pairs of glasses, I knew,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: because I couldn't be wondering, that kind of cubicle last thing, couldn't be wandering around with them
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: on all the time.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: they're not photographing things, I have to take them off in certain situations.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: All right, yeah, yeah.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: So wandering through the country, no worries, not going to be worried.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Wandering through the supermarket, listening to stuff and clicking, shopping lists, no worries.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: But you know, if you go in a changing room or something, you really don't want to be a toilet. Yeah, I mean it's just, it's just knobs and fun.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: >> You don't even want to think about that.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: But it's it's all good.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Well, it's interesting because one of the things that I find personally with various AI tools,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: et cetera, we use a lot of them at work and they're really good at what they do.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: But all the AI vendors want you to interact via voice, right?
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: That's the big thing, become your assistant that you're chatting with.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And I find it, I rarely want to talk to my computer.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I don't want to interact via voice because that means it's listening.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I would rather hit a command key, pop up a window, type something in, get a response back, et cetera.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And I'm wondering there's a social acceptance that's slowly happening, just like all the cameras and everything else of people.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Being willing to have something listening all the time and asking it questions.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And the stigma to me was I remember early on on the Apple Watch when Siri was enabled on it.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I was in a meeting with the general manager of the product division I was in at the time.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And we were having a fairly confidential strategic conversation about some product work and possible partnerships.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And Siri kept piping up saying, "I'm sorry, I didn't get that."
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: [laughing]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And to me, that's just horrible.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: It's like people wearing the ray bands.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And if you're having a conversation with somebody and you don't notice it.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Now granted, you won't hear when it says to that person through the bone conduction, "Hey, I'm sorry, I didn't get that."
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: But.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I mean, it depends how loud you have it turned up, but it's surprisingly how much it, I mean, it's not surprising because it's not your near, but it does leak and people do wonder what an earth's slat going past.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah, so there's there's these types of kind of societal things that I think are interesting and how that will play into
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: The usage and more usage of various AI listening to us
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I've found when I'm with the family and I've got them on and I want to ask it a question.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: They now know I'm going to talk to it because I turn my head away and look down and unless I'm looking at something and I go, "Hey, matter blah blah blah blah" because so often I was like, "Sorry, what were you saying?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: What did you say something?"
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And it's like, "No, I'm talking to the..." And because then you say, "No, I'm talking to this" and then it listens to you saying that and thinks that's the question that
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: [laughs]
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: it and you end up in these conversations with three of you, but only one of you knows there's three of you in it and that's the kind of weird side effect of it.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I remember a TV show, a TV movie back in the '70s called "Sibble" about a woman who was talking with like 13 of her.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Oh, sibble, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, no, it's very much like that, but it's alright as you get older people expect that or is I think.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So, there was something else I saw and I'd love to get your perspective on this and I'm I'm sure we have a link somewhere in various shows.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And there was an acquisition recently of a gaming simulation company by one of the AI vendors.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Looking at the simulation, have you heard that, I think it was perplexity maybe, or anthropic buying one of the game simulation environments?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I think a lot of the AI generation stuff is moving to the next phase of being able to generate worlds.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: So Googler doing it, mid-journey has been talking about the holodeck thing for a while and there's lots of little tools that do those things.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And in the industrial space people are doing much more.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: kind of game engine style simulations of things as part of the whole AI and digital twin and trading robots and all that.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: So it's not really a surprise that it's coming from going from base direction.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: So an AI company saying that we need some simulation stuff makes sense and likewise simulation stuff saying we need some AI stuff.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And so yeah it's going to be, I mean it's still it.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: We don't really use really interesting, but it's just going to get even more interesting. This stuff being able to, I mean you mentioned the procedural generated stuff you had with old time.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I was gonna take it back to that. I'm glad you did it for me.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Yeah well, and so that's doing that well can just be pure procedural content, but doing that kind of procedural with the hint of AI.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: that is a bit of context on what's happening, what the story lines spell.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: It's not just to be not just some random forest you just wander in, it's nothing to do with anything, because you're wearing an urban environment, all that stuff, that's going to be, that's going to be fun.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: I don't know how we'll have some really bad games guaranteed. There'll be some awful, awful, awful ones, and then something will go boom, and it will be the poster child for that generation of games.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Are you still playing what is it?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Oh yes, I can't stop, so that came out in 2016, that's nine years old, that game, and they are still doing fully procedural, and they're doing huge, huge updates all the time as well to the whole experience.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah, but it was fully procedural
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And they kind of stopped-ish, stop playing it a little bit, every now and then, it's my go-to relaxation game, but there's so many other things to play.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: They just dropped this month ago, some of this Corvette patch, or enhancement, which meant rather than just flying one of the multitude of little fighters that you'd see in and zoom around, and you can put all different stuff on it and things and custom them up, and get the right loadout, but they changed it so that, instead, or as well, you could build spaceships from bits.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And these components that you could barter and dig up and find in places, and it utterly changes the feel of it, because you know, sat in this cockpit, zooming through space, and you may be doing the space fighting or mining something or trying to get somewhere, or the multitude of storyline things have got, but you can get out of the seat and walk around your spaceship now.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: That was really really really good, just on the X
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: box on 2D screen but in VR is like oh my god I've got my own spaceship, I mean it just that I mean they've had they've had freights and things before but it's just something very special about some of the bits they've got in here and and and even and when you're in space because you're in a space you anyway you can open the back hatch and you can spacewalk out of your ship so you've gone from this chained into this little thing.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: to this, well, I'm just going to go and wander around and float in space for a while.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And you know, you start to ice up a little bit after a while,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: but it is fantastic.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And the number, yes, you can do the whole thing,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And you can do that in VR, too, and you can look back and in, oh, awesome.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: the whole thing, the whole thing,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: but it's the level of detail inside these corvettes,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: like there's three or four different kind of graphical styles
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: to things.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: of plush ambassador one.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: But there's a nutrient station or a kind of cooking thing that you can bolt inside so you can custom the inside as well.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And on one of them on the base one you end up with this little bench seat and a little round table with some sort of looks a bit like a dart board sort of shape and color.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Yeah, you can play space chess.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: and clearly...
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: clearly it's the Star Wars one I mean it's just oh wow and then other bits of it look like they're from Alien and things like that so so they've they've a you know it's a labor of love from them from Hello Gangs
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So, so speaking of cool space stuff, and you mentioned alien, and I know we've only got like two minutes left.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Have you been watching alien Earth?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Not yet, I was too scared too
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Okay.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: It's on list plus plus I've been playing Battlefield 6 instead as well because that came out last weekend and
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Okay. Okay. Well, you got to have set those priorities.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: And and yeah, and I
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Battlefield 6 is incredible
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: from a It's electronic arts and electronic arts just got bought for 55 million or billion dollars by billion. Yes, they're not being and
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Billion
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: them which is egg it.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: again inside an incredible. But the level of environment destruction that happens in the war environment in Battlefield is incredible. So you quite often you know, college you get little bullet holes and things in the old tree form over some time. But this, the whole front of a building will fall off and just crumble. And so you've got you know some bad guy in a machine gun nest or something and you take little pot shots at them or you just send a tank in
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: just explosive. And it just goes all the way down and it's some very clever.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: [laughing]
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: - Wow.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: One of the most amazing things to me and I remember us working together, gosh.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Almost 20 years ago and talking about the size of the gaming industry at that point was already getting bigger than Hollywood, right?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Yeah, yeah.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And now it's so far past it.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: and you think of a 54.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: 5 billion dollar acquisition and you go, well, you know, maybe that does make sense.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Yeah, I mean it's I mean EA's got a lot of a lot of IP obviously a lot of very popular games and
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And if you create a game that is as addictive and as engaging as something like No Man's Sky,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: which is not EA, you've got people playing it for 10 plus years.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: - Yeah.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: - Absolutely.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: I mean, I'm still doing a world of aircraft, right?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: - Yeah.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: And that came out in what 2003, 2004.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So that's 20 years IP and it's just printing money for them.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: So from an acquisition perspective,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Well, a weird thing with No Man's Sky is that they're managing to do it on new sales,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: effectively. There's no subscription. There's no DLC that you pay for.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: There's stuff just arrives. And it said it's a fantastic...
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: The biomes and stuff that they've added and some of the planets you get to look at,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: because every time you arrive at a planet,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: basically maths generating it for the first time and that seeds it.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: and then it becomes part of the entire joint universe.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: So somebody else might actually land on that planet, just mindblowing.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: But, yeah, all from a greed monetization thing that many games have become,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: we're here here, have a loot box here, have this by this pointless bit of rubbish,
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: to something that's crafted and loved by the developers and by all the people it just is just wonderful.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: because now it's even more used to generate content in it with all these.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Crazy ships that people are building. It's wonderful.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: Well, well on that note Ian, it has been crazy fun and engaging catching up with you on the world of gaming and VR and all this fun stuff.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: If people want to follow you online, is there any place that they should go?
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Oh well, just look for a predator, that's my handle.
FF9E8842-5F75-42BA-ACA5-F143EBBE4FCF: Or, I mean, I still occasionally blog on feedingedge.co.uk, but my handle's a predator so you can find me almost everywhere.
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: anywhere. Yes. Well, great. Uh, everybody else, uh, we appreciate your listening. Uh, hopefully we'll be back again next week. I will not be here next week, but, uh, my other co hosts may, um,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: if not, it'll be two weeks from now before our next episode. We really appreciate your feedback,
42D27622-89CE-4078-A393-014D2405AC5D: follow us over at Mastodon, uh, and games at work, biz. And, uh, otherwise come to our website at games@work.biz and we'd love to hear from you. Thanks.
3F2565F4-8E80-42F8-90F7-18FF30737BD7: [upbeat music]
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: You've been listening to games@work.biz, the podcast about gaming technology and play.
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: We are part of the Blueberry podcasting network, and we'd like to thank the band,
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: Random Encounters for their song, Big Blue.
85B8A778-442F-4774-B06B-87CA41238534: You can follow us at our website at games@work.biz.
3F2565F4-8E80-42F8-90F7-18FF30737BD7: [audience applauds]