657C958D-F3B7-4544-8704-5E53AE4E9B10: [Music]
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: This is GamesItWork.biz, your weekly podcast about gaming, technology and play.
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: Your hosts are Michael Martine, Andy Piper, and Michael Rowe.
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: The thoughts and opinions on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests alone,
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: and are not the opinions of any organization which they have been, are or may be, affiliated with.
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: This is episode 536.
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: Can we skip all AI this time?
657C958D-F3B7-4544-8704-5E53AE4E9B10: [upbeat music]
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Hello, welcome again to Games at Work.biz, your weekly technology podcast. I'm Andy Piper,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: and with me today are one of the Michaels, and I guess I will pass straight over to Mr. Michael
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I am well and a great to hear you, and sorry I missed last week's show, a little under the weather.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: So thanks for you and Michael, keep you going quite well. I enjoyed it.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: We pulled something out of the hat, we made some words happen.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yeah, threw some crap on the wall and said, "That'll stick."
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: And as you said, we have a guest, Ian. Ian Hughes, welcome.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Hello, it's good to be back once again and
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: It's good to be bad, it's good to be.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I think that's an oasis line anyway.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yes, good to have you.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: It's an auspicious occasion for having you too.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Thank you.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: We understand you're on to having new fun, new and exciting fun coming up.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Certainly I am and yes, so today is my first day of my official retirement
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So I have I have plenty of things lined up, but I am actually retired so I I'm not
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Have you-- are you playing any--
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: All these words in my own and it doesn't have to be anything to do an employer. I don't have to mention that
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: are you playing any interesting games since we're going to kick off into the gaming world?
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Well I I was sitting playing the new...
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: the new version of Demiow that we talked about I think back in October didn't we because it was just it was scheduled to come out and so I finally got around to playing it and it's battle marked and it's called battle marked and it's officially a D&D branded and themed experience and they've jazzed the whole thing out it's I mean Demiow was good anyway but it's much much better now and it was a wonderful sitting playing it.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: awesome. Cool, cool. Andy, any games you're playing?
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: One of my playing at the moment, I discovered that there's an open source port of the game engine for cannon fodder from
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yay! (laughs)
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Back in the day. So I've been playing that the last couple of days
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Are on the in the evenings on the on the Linux machine
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: You can obviously run on Steamberg and it's a lot of fun just to go back to it's a little bit
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: archaic because there's lots of references to things
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: that you know are so old now that you know nobody really thinks about them and yeah I was just kind of blown away just to have another poke at it after gosh 20-30 years but that's one thing and I also got my steam in review my steam year in review it was much more interesting than my Xbox year in review because I've barely been able to get on the Xbox this year and yeah there was I do a lot of dipping in and out of indie games so it was quite fun to see I think 40 of it.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: 50 odd games across the year that I've been playing around on.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Wow, awesome. Yeah, I've spent a little bit of time
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Had some time to play a little bit of wow, and they've got this mechanism going on right now where you can
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: restart the game
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: In one of the timelines one of the expansions as a beginning and level up a character from zero to current level max fairly quickly
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: So I'm I'm reliving the Legion
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Which is kind of cool cuz there's there's this magical group of
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Night elves no not night elves
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I guess they are kind of elven looking anyway these magic creatures there are magic nuts
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: On on a big island and there's lots of really bizarre
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: magical quests with with cool graphics and
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: evil bad guys, you know typical wild stuff but having fun with
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: that when I when I have time to play lately but I'm looking well I'm I'm I'm actually looking forward to and I think the beta comes out early next year the expanse game. I I am very much looking forward to that so if that were available right now I would probably be playing the beta.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So I was like, I'm the only one playing a new game then.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Well...
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So, and he's doing retro, you're doing wow, you know.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: But the Steam replay, I believe, and I'm just trying to find the reference for this story.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: They showed that it was more older games that people were playing than the AAA brand new ones over the course of the year,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: which I find really fascinating. I think either it reflects the state of the games industry with new releases,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: and/or the cost, and/or the economy, and/or lots of different factors that could be impacting that.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughs]
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Well, there is that that ability to dive in or to have a quick game of something rather than having to devote your life to it. Obviously, where is a longer one,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: but these, you know, social media is all about snippets,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: is all about tiny little short things that you're experiencing.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So, going to an older game, you only get to play it for a little while because then you're dead.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And then you play again if you want to, but you can kind of skip through a load.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Right. (laughs)
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And it's nice that it's all still there, isn't it?
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: That's the, and, and coming back, you mentioned the zork thing the other week as well, so things, things like that are, are nice to see, for the kids, and for us.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yes
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I mean I'm looking at my I just put my steam replay in the show notes for later, but I yeah, 40 40 games played This is just on steam with 31 of which listed as new as in games. I hadn't played before I'm assuming
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Only three days longer streak I played a lot of 12 is better than six. That was quite fun a lot of vampire survivors as well
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Now, yes, of course.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: There's a load of that.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I've got some Nomine Sky in there, but it's still not that much compared to what you were saying a number of weeks ago.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yeah, so I've spent an awful lot of time a moment ago, and across every single platform you can possibly imagine, because now there's lots more cross-platform saving and stuff,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Did enjoy it, though.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: so that's been intriguing, because I've got a bunch of lives effectively, they've been lived, and I don't know which one to pick as the main one to play across all of them.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yeah my steam replay is horrible. I definitely have not played enough of this like four games
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: So the story, the story I've managed to find the reference to the thing I was talking about,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: which is a steam replay showing that only 14% of all the user playtime was spent playing new PC games in the last year, 2025.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: So speaking of years in review, I know this is way out of sequence, there was a hilarious thing on Sarah Knight Live the other day that was a spoof of the years in review doing a year in review for your Uber Eats, which evidently, according to this story, Uber then did.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: - Yes.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: [laughing]
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I haven't, yeah, I went back and actually re-downloaded and installed UberEats on my phone,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: which had uninstalled itself,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: just to see if I had that option available to me,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: which I didn't, because I don't,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: and I don't remember the last time I used UberEats,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: so that may make sense there, but,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: so I don't know whether they've even released that feature in the UK, but the sketch on Saturday and I live was quite funny, I have to say.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yeah, I don't use your Uber Eats at all, but for work this year, I had to set up an Uber account because they prefer Uber over getting a cab, and ever since then, every week, sometimes multiple times a week, I get the, hey, here's a $25 credit to try out Uber Eats, it's going to run out, it's going to run out, and every week they redo it, it's like just Stop! Just stop! I'm not gonna use-
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: [laughing]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: you!
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: So the first actual link we've got to talk about is going back to our retro-ish section there where we just talk about games and we've got this old C64 quick shot joystick being re-released for the modern era.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I, this is exciting to me only because I've, I've actually seen somebody in my mastodon feet and like, I can't remember who it was, but they got their new C64 in the mail today.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: So that was the other thing that I've added into the show notes, which was the other the 64 ultimate that's just been
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Just come out under the under the various legal ranglings that are going on between the two organizations with bits of the Commodore brand which is
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: quite sad and entertaining. I actually said to the author of this story on Hackster Gareth Halfaker He was talking about it or mastered on and I said oh well, I hope the keyboard is better than it was was worth
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: putting up with because it was out. I've got a c64 that I was
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: gifted Five or six years ago probably longer than that now by a former colleague of mine, which I
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Contaped used a kit to convert it into a USB keyboard that you can just plug into any other machine It's reversible. So it's just a little thing where you use basically plug it plug in the the keyboard
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Because the challenge was to get it to to post a tweet. So the easiest way to do that was to just have it there people are USB keyboard instead of actually hacking around with the network.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: But the keyboard is not good on those machines by comparison to what we have today.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Gareth Halfacre was saying it's pretty nice on the new ones.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I think the blinged out version that they came out with though is the ultimate ultimate, which is transparent case RGB lighting, all kinds of stuff.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I struggle with that. I mean, I like my art LED lighting and things, but yeah, it's a bit too much.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I feel like that particular version.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: when I built my gaming rig some years ago,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: they put memory with lights on it and the fans had lights on it and I am immediately disabled all that crap.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughs]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I don't want lights on that.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I want really good lights on my monitor doing content.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I, Andy, what you're saying about the keyboard on 64, I don't, I don't remember it being bad because it was compared to the spectrum. Because they wrote at the same time. And the spectrum was rubber keys. Obviously, it was a step up from ZX81. And these were full stroke keys. And most people hadn't even used a typewriter or anything. It kind of our, our age at the time. So to have these, even just looking at the pictures of it, taken back to my...
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughs]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Right. Oh, yes.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yes, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yes.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: much 64. I mean, that's what, that was my first, my first programming gig was I wrote a lunar lander on the C64 that was published in computer and video games. And they sent me £10. Oh, there's a spectrum keyboard. Yes.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughs]
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Well, this is not as, I'm holding up, I'm holding up my, my ESP32 rainbow, which is like a spectrum like machine, which I is, it's got a bit dusty because I've had to put it aside for various other reasons this the last few months, but I want to get back to this. This is a, it was a crowd funded device.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: The keys on this are, it's basically a circuit board with capacitive keys rather than rubber ones and it's got a screen built into it with a small.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Oh yes, so it just looks like one, yes.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: But you can play all the old games on it under emulation. It's not FPGA like the new Commodore. He said you turning his head away from the microphone and ruining Michael's editing as he tells the story.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: [laughs]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: - Well, yeah, I remember my C64 SX and those function keys on the side, right?
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: That was just the weirdest thing.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: They were cool at the time because you didn't have a lot of function keys unless you had like an IBM keyboard, right?
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: But everybody else, I had the TimeX Sinclair, which is basically similar to the one that you showed with the little bubble keys.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Which was a pain and when I got these keys these were awesome right there are very tacked
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yeah. Well, the nice thing about the C64 Altima is that they, you know, because they've gone down the FPGA route and they've got essentially a real capable device there rather than emulation that you can use almost all of the expansions. So in fact, that's what the article on Haxter Dersie goes through and starts plugging in his old
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Andy would love them because they would also ruin a podcast because you'd hear
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: [laughing]
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: devices to essentially mention the spectrum, the there are some quite neat devices now that let you plug in your spectrum expansion boards to some not to the one I have to the SP 32 rainbow, but some of the the spectrum next and other devices. So yeah, there's some very clever stuff going on and probably one of my holiday. Well, I know that one of my holiday projects is to soldered together what's called a Pico six.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: So basically it's going to recreate a 6502 based old machine, but I've also got some Z80 ones which I'm still sitting around in kit form that I haven't put together. So I'm looking forward to doing a bit of tinkering with some of that stuff as well as some more modern things as well.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Well, in you speaking of gaming and you had put a link in the show notes around ready player me
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yeah, so at the time of recording, like now, just now, Netflix has bought Ready Player Me, and Ready Player Me has been for a number of years now, a cross-platform avatar provider.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So you can be in VR chat and pull in a version of your avatar that you can see centrally create an avatar or set by guitars and then then these
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: avatars are delivered in in the appropriate form to various platforms and so whether it's on spatial or I mean there are hundreds of platforms it supported and it would even do things if it's if it's not even a full 3D platform you end up with the picture of the avatar you created and the thing that was really interesting was that because they were available on all these platforms if someone like L'Oreal for instance or Someone like, uh,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: the producers that do move, you wanted to promote something, you just put the stuff for the avatars in ready play a me.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And then that content would appear everywhere. You know, we've talked about that sort of thing needing to happen for a long while.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And so Netflix have decided to buy it. There's only 20 people in the company, but they bought it.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And, uh, on January the 26th, it won't be working anymore or January 2026, it won't be working anymore.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So they've not said it's a gearing concern.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: They've bought it and they're going to try and do whatever Netflix is now trying to do with gaming, and who knows.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: So are they really just hiring the resources?
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I think they are hiring resources, but there's only all the stuff they've built.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: They want to rebrand, don't they?
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And they want to take it and make it so that it works well in whatever the Netflix worlds going to be.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Uh, so, so, so they're killing the distribution mechanism that is there, uh, um, but...
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yes, it would appear to be that.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yes, even though it will work in their ecosystems.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yeah.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So it's kind of everything needs to...
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So the complete opposite of what it was trying to do, everything needs to belong to me.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [chuckles]
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And it's a shame, I think, really.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Especially as it got its way into VR chat and places like that as well.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: But we'll see.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I've just not put it in any more of my presentations.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yeah.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Well, I thought it is interesting that I also picked up on the fact that they're shutting it straight, basically shutting it straight down.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: They Netflix hired somebody formally from Epic as their new VP for gaming last year, and it looks like they are making a serious shift in that direction rather than just kind of still fiddling around on the edges of it with the mobile game subscription packaging thing that they've been doing.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I've noticed as well I've missed a lot of this stuff, I have.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I haven't literally not played used the Netflix subscription for gaming at all, but I've seen things like mention of Red Dead Redemption being available on iOS through that now means that I'll probably have another look at it.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: It's a bit of a shame though, if the technology was as cool as you would describing, unless it's just to shut the rest of the market out of that opportunity.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I know that there continue to be a lot of cross-brand promotions.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Especially between movie studios and games studios, obviously, but all kinds of other ways, the big one that I'm aware of at the moment is the current SpongeBob movie that's being released is forced its way into the Sims, which is really annoyed a lot of Sims people because they just simply don't want the SpongeBob content at all.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Well, I mean, they're up against, they're up against Fortnite and roadblocks.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I mean, roadblocks, obviously, the biggie Fortnite is the one that you see them all recognizable things turn up in, so, you know, they've got, and they've got like K-pop demon hunters in Fortnite, which is kind of a Netflix thing.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So, I think they're going, oh, hang on, we'll maybe try and...
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: all that back and try and control it, but that seems a weird thing, unless you know, I don't know, maybe we're just going to go and buy that.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I... Yeah, I guess the reason that they have to shut it down is they never supported Club Penguin.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Well, you say that, they probably would be able to have an appropriate shaped avatar for that.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I mean, Fortnite tries to kind of, does it with a shared avatar and some types of the avatar that and the customizations to go into different environments.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: So you end up, so Fortnite ends up with a Lego version of the avatar that you might be using or whatever so you can go into the leg of your environment.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: But yeah, it's weird news, I'm coming to terms with it, but it'll be alright.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I'm retired now so I don't have to write about it so that's alright.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Well they hired James, they hired James Watley to do a lot of the stuff with Legated to do a lot of that Fortnite collaboration stuff, which is very cool.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yeah, it's very good.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Cool. Well, yeah, so I saw this article this week, and I know in the past we've talked about art restoration, and I just thought this was a really cool article and some great video content on how it's actually supposed to work.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Alright, what's next? We're moving on to makers, I guess.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I know, when was it three years ago or more were the one
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: It is interesting, and this particular one is a fantastic-looking piece of art, kind of classical painting.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: And I'm not sure, it does mention that it's put on canvas.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: It doesn't look like canvas from the way that it's on the table in the images that he's working on it.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I have to say, I do watch a lot of shows like there's an organisation in the UK,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: so there's a TV show behind the scenes, a secret of the National Trust,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: where they do a lot of this kind of work on, sorry, US friends, but considerably older.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: That's right, yeah, no exactly.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: You mean, you mean it's not like ancient from the 1890s?
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: It goes back a bit further, quite often.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: And they employ their own conservators, and then they also work with organisations like the Victoria and Albert Museum,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: who's also got conservative.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: It is really interesting, almost always they'll start off by taking off all of the existing varnish and figuring out why it's all gone discolored and then retouching it all underneath by flake by flake, but yeah, you can get some really interesting results from this and it's interesting to see this sort of content showing up on YouTube. I can imagine it's the kind of thing that a lot of people get quite absorbed by.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: This is removing.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: it does look very popular because playing through the video, I mean A, there's a advert every 25 seconds it seems or two adverts, but also at the start of it he is promoting a product as an influence of wood and then goes on to do this restoration, but it's also a very long process and hence a very long video, which is the other surprising things. If you look at how many dots there are for the adverts. He's doing quite well for himself.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yes. But then you're getting all of the detail. As part from the fact that he's monetizing it as he goes and getting all of those views and clicks, if you're looking at it in a TV show, then typically you're seeing maybe it's a 30 minute or 45 minute show and you'll get three four minute segments of the
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: - Yeah.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I've been another monetising scraping paint. Yeah. Yeah.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: server to doing a little bit of work in each and then oh then magically at the end you get this beautiful yeah exactly where whereas this is obviously doing the much more detailed full thing that you can follow it along and that's that's quite quite fun yes that's right
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yeah, wavy wavy line.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: And the rest is describing what they did.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: We've also got the repair shop over here in the UK TV show,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: which is set at the world and down Open Air Museum,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: which is itself where a lot of old buildings have been put and are kept loads of Tudor things and really nice place.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And that one, people bring in a cherished item of some sort, which is usually completely destroyed.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I mean, it is like pots in bits and leather bags,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: falling apart and paintings and books and stuff.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And then they have specific conservators
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: deal with that and watchmakers and things like that.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: And they interspersed between each,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: you know, several items were brought in and then there's this big reveal at the end and everybody cries, which is good because it's a very emotional show, but it's fascinating.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: - Yeah.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Well, and that's also on the publicly funded BBC with no ads in.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: So Michael, what we're saying is welcome to the future where we get to watch these kind of things and learn about these processes on our national broadcaster without advertising.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: - Yeah, we don't have national support of the arts,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: the media, or journalism anymore.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: One of the things I fascinates me again by seeing these types of restorations is one,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: just how stunning some original art was that's deteriorated over the years,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: gotten covered in cigarette smoke and other crap.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: And it reminds me of a co-worker of mine.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: He gave a presentation,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: he describes himself as an ITSM expert.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: And he goes, "And I've been working with computer "since the entire world was in sepia."
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: [laughing]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Which I love that phrase, 'cause it says,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: you know, I've been around a while.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: It was basically what he's saying.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: And then you look at this and you go,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: "Yeah, but if you actually go back "and look at the art now, once it's restored,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: "it wasn't really in sepia, back then,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: [laughing]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: "it really was very colorful."
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: - Excellent.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughing]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: So, no, this, this, I,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: like I said, I think this is, this is fantastic and, and there are, there are shows like this on PBS and, and stuff here too, but I just found this one giving the maker section that we usually try to do it fit quite nicely in that even though he's not making anything new, he's just restoring something made.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Well, on the other end of the maker spectrum,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: the more modern things I'm rebooting are local maker group on Sunday.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: And so two days after we record this,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: we're getting back together,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: we lost the founder person that started the group unfortunately this year.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: And so we've had a bit of a pause,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: but we're gonna get together and have a bit of a Christmas pre-Christmas gathering and talk about what people want to do next year.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: So hopefully we'll start to do some fun things.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: that's another element.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: of my building old retro things from Z80s and 6502 processes and stuff I guess, so yeah, it should be fun.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I might have to do some of that in my retirement.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yeah, you go, exactly.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughter]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Quit pragging.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughter]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Well, speaking of making or we should say unmaking things,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: there is an article this week in futurism.com about the meta-smart glasses usage on subways.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: And years ago-- and I still have my pair of go.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: on my door back there, which you can all see in this audio podcast and that's when people were called glass holes and evidently somebody on a subway in New York, I think it was shoes in New York, got tired of somebody wearing his glasses and just being a pain, so she walked up and broke them. Now, I know for a fact, I'm talking to two people who have made a glass, and I want to get your perspective on this.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yes.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I was thinking about this this morning.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I haven't worn mine for quite some time for multitude of reasons and very strongly to do with what my current line of work and interest.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I think they are interesting and I think that the ones with the screen that display that they've just announced look really cool.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I found mine quite fun to wear and use for a period of time.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I haven't found them, didn't find them super useful from a day-to-day perspective.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: And that's another reason why I've stopped wearing them.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I did think to myself, as I was looking at this story this morning, that it's about the Overton window.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: It's about the idea that this is a new norm that people should become accustomed to.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: And I think that when you start to go down the route, which we've discussed in the past,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: always on recordings with no indication that you are being recorded by other people,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: we know that the UK is the most highly surveilled country in the world in terms of like
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: close circuit TV cameras per head, right? So almost wherever I go outside my house,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I'll be on some kind of CCTV camera, and there's not something I think about all the time.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: What I do notice is if I'm in a space with people who are wearing glasses with lights on them,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I'm more likely to see that. And I'm a lot more suspicious or cautious, I should say,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: not suspicious of the individuals, but cautious about what that might be being used for.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I was never challenged about wearing the meta smart glasses,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Raybound when I was out with them. Many people didn't notice, unless they were making a noise because I was listening to podcasts or whatever, and I had the sound up a bit too loud,
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: and and people would
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: make them look at me a bit strangely because presumably they could hear mumbling but I am not sure that it's okay that we keep pushing the overton or the overton window is pushed in this direction in the same way that it is happening with the thing that we said we were going to skip at the top of the show. We the expectation is that people will become used to it because it's become so widespread and widely used in everybody's doing it but doesn't necessarily
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: We're not even talking about it
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: make it okay, especially not without consent, and that is the consent piece which bothers me the most, and equally I am frustrated that it presumably seemed okay for somebody to break something that belonged to another person that seems upsetting as well, but I'm certainly not going to defend that person for whose item has been.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Broken, without knowing more of the context.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yeah, I think on both sides of the equation, right?
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: You know, if you're recording without permission, that's bad.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: And if you're breaking somebody else's stuff, that's bad.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Well, it's it's the typical reaction both sides. I mean, we don't know what I don't actually know what the guy was doing about it. And so I've just put mine on as as listeners will be able to hear or not.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yeah
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: It's not yours.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yes
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: I've had mine about six months and I use them almost every day at some point.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Hmm. Definitely.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Whether it's for listening to some because it's nice to have the bone conduction to listen to something and shove the things in my ears. And if we go for a walk,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: hang in the country, which do every regularly, then I get to take photos and stuff like that, I've never run me drowned and pick my it's rather than pick my phone out of my pocket. But I do know that when I've been somewhere and had to go like to the lures or something like that, if we're out somewhere, I actually I always have my other glass with my take these off because I
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Right.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: want to even begin to think where the people think I'm doing anything so that's the problem isn't it it's it most people don't don't know it's especially when they turn to shade you can't you can't really see the camera
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yeah, I
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: In my case I also bought two other pairs of glasses this year for branding purposes.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I went, I got colourful frames to match my company's brand, I am that much of a marketing geek,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yeah.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: and then I changed my lenses because I needed to go to any prescription, and it all got a bit complicated with the meta as well. So yes, I think it's that recording thing that it's definitely and they can send it.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: The other thing we wanted to quickly hit on, just to wrap up was this year's Public Domain Day. This is the last show that we're recording in 2025 and by the time we recorded gain, we would have passed January 1st, 2026, which is Public Domain Day. What are we excited about in the titles or characters that are going into the Public Domain this year? Well, I get the Chris, he's not a, not a character.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Betteboo
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Agatha Christie. I know, but her murder at the vicarage. I know we actually have I think downstairs,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Betteboo
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Yep.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: a group of the Nancy Drew books probably have the first four in there. One of my favorite classes in college was a philosophy class on ethics. So philosophers, Bertard Russell, might be interesting
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: to go back and read. Three Stooges soup to nuts. Love it. Yeah. Betty Boop. Actually, I bought a copy of that years ago, so I'll probably just watch it again. But it's, I think it's good that this is finally starting to happen. And the story in here from Cory Doc.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: What are you going to do with it now that it's public domain? What are you going to do with it? They're going to remix it? You're going to rewrite it? You're going to
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: [laughing]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: I talked about the the Duke professors who started tracking all this some years back. I live in the town of Duke University. And it's now something that actually is every year. There's something interesting happening now. We've gotten past that 75 year plus the lifetime of the creator crap in the US.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Yeah, it's weird, isn't it, that the dichotomy of worrying about copyright and people's work not being misused by the things that we're not talking about, that the top of the show,
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: and that we're also celebrating the fact that Maltese Falcon is open to be able to be messed with in whatever way you want. It's just because of some time limit that some random made up one day in the court of law.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Well, yeah, but that time limit is exceptionally long.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I was extended aggressively by corporations and copyright is broken,
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yeah, many times.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: so which we know, I mean, I have the EFFT share that says that and I agree.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: - Yeah.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughter]
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: I'm not saying that everybody's, you know, current creative work should be consumed by
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: things, and sold back to them, but I do think that there is value
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: in having the opportunity to share and remix content after a period of time as a lapse.
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: up. There is, I'm all for it for almost everything. So let's say almost everything. Just not mine. Thank you very much. Excellent.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: Right, well on that note, it's been a pleasure to have you with us in and this has been the end of our 2025 run of recording.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: [laughs]
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Well, yes, Ian.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Yes, we would love to hear from our listeners.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: So if you want, you can ping us over on Mastodon or go to our website, which has links to every way that you can contact us and get in touch with us, etc.
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: over at Games@Work.biz.
26117C1A-ECC9-497E-8EFE-A0EBD2D1EF27: See ya!
E7F071DC-7780-4EF9-A8A4-4B7601D80ECE: Bye!
657C958D-F3B7-4544-8704-5E53AE4E9B10: [upbeat music]
F839567C-D1DD-41C1-93EA-04B8EC261754: Tarrah.
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: You've been listening to Games@Work.biz, the podcast about gaming technology and play.
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: We are part of the Blueberry podcasting network, and we'd like to thank the band,
657C958D-F3B7-4544-8704-5E53AE4E9B10: [upbeat music]
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: Random Encounters for their song, Big Blue.
33BF619F-73D5-4A38-8994-740B263167EC: You can follow us at our website at Games@Work.biz.
657C958D-F3B7-4544-8704-5E53AE4E9B10: [upbeat music]
657C958D-F3B7-4544-8704-5E53AE4E9B10: [music playing]