031B49CF-91D5-42A3-A199-045AB830CA59: [Music]
DDDD35B1-7276-4FB9-A904-A4BF44E14D35: This is GamesItWork.biz, your weekly podcast about gaming, technology, and play.
DDDD35B1-7276-4FB9-A904-A4BF44E14D35: Your hosts are Michael Martine, Andy Piper, and Michael Rowe.
DDDD35B1-7276-4FB9-A904-A4BF44E14D35: The thoughts and opinions on this podcast are those of the hosts and guests alone,
DDDD35B1-7276-4FB9-A904-A4BF44E14D35: and are not the opinions of any organization which they have been, are, or may be, affiliated with.
DDDD35B1-7276-4FB9-A904-A4BF44E14D35: This is episode 539.
DDDD35B1-7276-4FB9-A904-A4BF44E14D35: WICHA, PETA is 25?
031B49CF-91D5-42A3-A199-045AB830CA59: [upbeat music]
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Good morning, good evening.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Good afternoon, Michael Rowe here.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And you know what?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: That means we have at least one mandatory Michael on this show.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And to round out the show,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: we have our one mandatory Englishman in use.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Welcome.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Hi Michael, I'm back. You can't get rid of me and I'm glad to represent the country
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: [laughing]
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: and talk tech in games and stuff and kill things.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yes.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: It's going to be a fun episode today.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Both of the other co-hosts are off-gallavanting somewhere.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I don't know what they're doing, but I'm sure it's very important.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But I find it very important to talk tech with my friends on a Friday afternoon.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So this is good stuff.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So we have a lot of things in the show.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: We're going to start off on a little bit of a meh note.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: You and I both saw this set of articles this week and given our history in this space,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: face, I figured it was appropriate for us to talk about.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And all the machinations going around with their studios and the reality labs,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: and metaverse for work and all that.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Let's see what it is.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: They're closing some studios, doing layoffs in their wearables in their reality lab division,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: and also discontinuing the metaverse for work.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Ian, what do you think?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: You've got both the quest.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: You probably have used metaverse for work maybe with some of the work that you used to do.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I looked at it yes yes I do there is a shift of glasses and obviously this is terrible for people that have lost their jobs but equally it's not necessarily been as successful as it wanted in the whole in with horizon for instance for the the kind of online space because
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And you have the glasses.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So it seems like a shift to glasses.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: the contents not
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And they're up against people like Roblox and Fortnite and a generational shift and you've got 10 billion, I think 10 billion Roblox accounts and many many more monthly active uses than Horizon gets and these are companies and they have shareholders and it's not about whether we think it's all a good idea or not.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: they'll cut things that the drop of a hat won't be in.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That's what they've done here and it's it's all very brutal and we've seen the same things across across the games industry. There's loads of shutdowns and layoffs and stuff and it's it's not good.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: But it will rally round because this stuff's going to happen anyway.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, well, I, what I really hope that happens is, you know,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: when any type shift like this, we're a very large employer lays off a large amount of people in an area where there's a passionate following, some of them go off and start something. And I'm hoping they do that because as much as I love my vision pro and we'll get to it in a second, um, competition in the space of VR headsets and VR environments is important. It's what pushes it forward.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yes. And, and though, I mean, the games industry is is renowned for, I'd say, these ships and these layoffs and people going off and foundings on the else and, as you said, out of that, some really unusual new things turn up.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And the, the spirit is there because there's a great.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Boundless creativity amongst many of the people involved in here and unfortunately they'd been sucked into a big corporate monster.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So hopefully, they'll, they'll.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: find their way and we're all there to support them.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Speaking of interesting things, last weekend in the U.S., Apple and the Los Angeles Lakers,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: who are a National Basketball Association team with some famous players, I am not an NBA fan,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: but they did their first of a whole series of matches that are streaming live on the
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: pro. Now, that is phenomenal, technically. I watched the replay because you could get it later as a replay. I didn't watch the whole thing because, again, NBA basketball who cares. If you're a listener who cares about NBA basketball, drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you. But it was a phenomenal experience. So let me describe it a little bit.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Apple has set up four cameras in the arena that they're playing at in Los Angeles.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: There's one at the halfway point on the basketball court,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: basically right at the judge's desk.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And it's set at probably waist high.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: There are two, one each kind of slightly,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: off to the side and behind the basket where they dump the ball in.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Like my technical basketball terms.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: [laugh]
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And those are the rim of the backboards are clear, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And so you can see the players as they're going up and taking the shot or jostling underneath the backboard, et cetera.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And then the fourth one is in the again,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: at the center of the court.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But up at the top in the last row of the stadium.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And so they have directors directing the production in real time.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And most of the time, because NBA basketball tends to be,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: and this is one of the reasons I don't like it, very fast pace,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: take the ball, go the other end, jump it in the thing,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: grab the ball, go the other end, dump it in the thing.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: That's the game, right?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That sounds like basketball. Yeah.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But they do at times show it from the judges table and sometimes from the top.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So you can kind of see the overall play of the game and also see just how huge these athletes are.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I mean, they are tall guys.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Let me tell you.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And the other thing that they do, this is a 180 arc video.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And so you actually can see.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: When you're looking at half court, you can look to the right and left and kind of see the play go back and forth as if you were sitting in supposedly the best seats in the house.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And the other thing that they did is both pregame and halftime. They had a talking head kind of with stuff going on behind them. They showed you the halftime events.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And it just was...
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And it probably because I didn't watch the whole thing, but I didn't see any breaks for commercials and the stuff that usually happens when they go to time out.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: They would pull back to the midfield camera so you could watch what's happening on the court while the team's off talking.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Because all kinds of stuff happens.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I never realized that for lack of a better term, I'll call them guards came out and kind of guard around the basket.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And there was a little halftime show going on during every break.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And, you know, certain coaches would peel off to the side and talk amongst themselves while other coaches were talking to the players.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: It was pretty fascinating as an event.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That's very cool. So it was showing the 180 video. Was it doing any kind of little extra data or a little bit? Because they always show it as showing the little, the little pitch and where all the players are, the core, where all the players are as little dots and stuff.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: They did have at the pregame time.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: They did have some nice 3D rendered overlays with information about the players and stuff.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Like you see it a normal soccer or other sports match when they're saying this is the line up and blah, blah, blah, blah.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: They didn't do like the stuff that I think you used to do at Wimbledon, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: you would render data into a graphical format into.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, that's why I asked, okay, so there's been kind of demos of the Formula One things where you get the view from the car but then you get the map and where all the cars are it's projected on the bottom of it across and out at you and we'll get there I mean this is a huge move isn't it and you know NBA is a big franchise and as you said the fact that they didn't have any commercial.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: We have some kind of data source. That... Yeah. Yeah.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I'm sure they'll get over that.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Oh, I'm sure. This is a commercial enterprise after all.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And you'll end up having lots of commercials.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, but that's impressive.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And yeah, let's have some more of that.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: With some more sports and some more interesting sports.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, well speaking of more of that, speaking of more of that, I saw in my feed this week,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: so I'm a subscriber to Applarkate and I saw in my feed this week that retrocade is coming to Applarkade, including a vision pro version where you can put the entire arcade cabinet in your room and play the cabinet.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, that's very good.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yes. Yes.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I mean, yes, this is what we want, isn't it?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And aside from, I mean, the retrocade thing,
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: there's a lot of retro platforms and things to pull in this and stuff on the Xbox and stuff like that.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: But the particularly with those arcade cabinets,
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: our iconic themselves aren't they?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And for those of us that were there at the time,
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: It's like, oh yeah, there's history back.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Oh, I remember feeding tons of quarters into some of those cabinets.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And just, and you know, I guess we're the ones buying this kit.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So it's good to, it's good to pander that.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: But obviously that means some other, as I said before, this is about the content and the thing that's interesting and the thing that draws you.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And we're crowding to our kids and stand around and watch other people play stuff before we had things like Twitch and stuff.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: You would watch somebody who was particularly good at space invaders or defender or back man.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: - Yeah.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: and um...
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And if you wanted to play next,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: you would put your quarter right up on the cabinet, right?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: absolutely. That was the way. Yeah.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And you're marking your, I'm next.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I mean it's and the fact that it's in in kind of the Apple Arcade subscription is particularly good.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, well, the really cool thing about it is and of course, you know
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I'm just waiting for one of my friends to pick up a vision pro any of them any on anyone
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Bueller, you look
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: [laughing]
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Because as you mentioned standing around and watching the other
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Play or play in the arcade was a big thing and you have this share play environment with with the vision pro
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: where they've added now, where multiple people in the same physical
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: space can also come together with their avatars in the virtual space, even though you could do that remotely like we did playing Demio, so I think it's another really cool example of what could happen.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, like with Debbie, yeah.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So, I don't know if you follow Macbreak weekly or any of those shows, but one of the former, and I can say now, former hosts of that, had given a session at Mac Guardian.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And I got to know him his name was Alex Lindsey, who was also founder of what Onino Media and a show called Office Hours, where every single morning since the start of the pandemic, way back in 2020, and continuing until, I guess it's still going on.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: We did weekly like two or three hour sessions on Zoom.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Learning about, you know, content creation tools, video editing, etc.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: He is now at Apple, just move their beginning of January to focus on the partner ecosystem, creating 3D content.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, yeah, so I'm really excited to see what's coming out of that.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: - Whoa, that's better.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I actually actually dropped him a note saying, you know, this is probably some of the best news
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: here about the Vision Pro and the rest of Apple's ecosystem with 3D content.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So I'm really excited to see what's going to go on there.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: We just now need them to move it on to to have some more cross-platform stuff
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But yeah.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Because it shouldn't be locked into a particular expensive bit of hardware. So it should work
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Across things just like the retro cages on phones and iPads. Yeah, but you know, it's all good and it's got 3D in it So it'll go the right way
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, but he did go to work for Apple, he did go to work for Apple, and yeah, yeah.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So speaking of other quick hits on gaming, another game that I know Michael Martina and I talk about a lot is civilizations, Civilization 7 came out, what, two or three years ago,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I think it was, and you know, I kept looking at it and I kept putting it off and kept putting it off.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I was also glad to find out that that'll be launching next month on Apple Arcade.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So included in the subscription, so really excited about that.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That's, that's amazing. I mean, it's, it's stunning going. Yes.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Because that to me, that is an A-list game, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And yep, there are a couple of years behind, they tend to be, but hey, it's there.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, the fact that it's designed or had the overlays for it so it works with touch and stuff and it's not just a weird port of a mouse system is really good to hear and obviously they put civilization on things like the switch and things like that before so it's hit those mobile, mobile platform, it's kind of mobile isn't it smaller platforms.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So to be there on your iPad or I've got feeling the iPhone for playing on the iPhone might be tricky because it is very intricate isn't it but but even that will have a look the thing is you can try it and see can't we well not yet I mean can you can't you run it as a as a screen somewhere yeah well there we are
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, yeah, unfortunately that one is not coming to the vision pro
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Which is a shame
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, well, I don't know some some games you can run as an iPad app
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But they have to enable that and and this one did not
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Doesn't specifically say that that's enabled. So I'm assuming it won't be there well speaking of
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Games and he had put this one in the show show rundown for us
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: There was a I think it was originally a Kickstarter a device called board and it is a
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Physical tablet-like device designed for playing board games in person
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: You know, we used to have those they were called
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: boards Yeah, and they usually had a board of some sort
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Board games, yes it's a good thing.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: that you laid out on the table. This one, it comes with 12 free games and I guess at $700 for a board. It better have at least a couple of few games, but designed to allow people to kind of do both tablet gaming and board gaming at the same time. Had you heard of this when it was a Kickstarter?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I, I thought I had, but then also I'm mixing it in my head with some, some other very similar things that are there to help you do board games whether it's, was it tilt, yeah, tilt, AR was doing, doing that.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, that one I remember.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And well, yeah, I've got that. So I need to dig that out, it's in my office somewhere.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That was, that was very good. And then there were, there were things using physical devices.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So on top of iPads. So there was a range of kids games, it was cars, I think. So you had like name a queen, you actually had a little like name a queen car that you put on your iPad and drove, drove around on it. So you had that tactile thing because that's, that's what you want with the board game, isn't it?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: It's the pick in the cards up and it's feeling with the, the presence of the dice as you roll it. And I know we rolled dice and demi out, but it's not the same as rolling dice.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: They make some sound, you get a feel. And I, that again, we're back down to content. Is it, are they really good board games or is it just going to be playing the basics? Because nobody's developing for us.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, that was interesting. There was one game that they show in a video demo that when I first saw it I was like oh cool. They made ice hockey
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Remember air hockey. Sorry air hockey
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, yeah, okay.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But it's it's actually like a mix of air hockey and asteroids
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: With with little pieces that you put on the on the board
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: and the pieces seem to be shooting at the other player
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But the rest of the mechanic kind of looks like air-hot.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, I mean the fact that it has pieces. I mean that's the
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That's the important bit and it's just it's just how creative people But then if you have this board and you have loads of different pieces because you want to game with
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And just step up.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: With dragons in it and counting and stuff like that Or you want a color racing game then you end up with a pile and pile of miniatures that you can need to do there And you don't know where they fit because you haven't got the box anymore
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So there is that it does save space. We've got loads of board games downstairs loads of things and I keep getting
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: The one kickstarter and weird games and wonderful games, and it is I think that it's like vinyl coming back isn't it having the box and having the pieces
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I really shouldn't be saying this I'm a techie, but it's just you know
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: That tactile.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Maybe the compute the compute stuff is there maybe for support on weird rules and things like that when you have to look it up on YouTube
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: But equally, I mean I'd be a pair of no play on it, so I may
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, well, we've talked a lot about, you know, having the content, which really gets into the idea of creating the content, and this past week, I think it was this past week, Apple announced, as they put it, an inspiring collection of creative apps.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Wait out, might take a deeper look at that one.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So they've done a bundle.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: of a lot of existing apps.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But they finally exposed what they're doing with.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Oh, God, I want to say procreate.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: What was the graphics tool that they bought?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: oh I can't remember um yes same it it's not I don't think it's pro creative because I've got that it's the other one big that's the one that's the one gotta pee in it
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I'm going blank, but I'm actually going to click through the link.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: No, no, it's not procreate.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Pixelmater.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Dixel Mater.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, and what they've done is kind of gone into the same type of bundle approach as Adobe with their creative suite, with affinity with their creative suite, and others, I guess DaVinci, and what's really interesting about this, I actually have up on the shelf behind me that you can't see due to my background.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And it's a--
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And it's a podcast
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: audio podcast, a box that is probably about a quarter meter wide, or about, say, 13, 14 inches wide,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: about 8 to 9 inches tall, and about 8 to 9 inches deep, which is the box that final cuts studio came in when you bought it.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: [laughing]
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And I think it, when I bought it, it was probably two grand.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And then they came out with a smaller version, which was even more powerful.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And that box was probably about the size of a box of five and a quarter inch floppy disks.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: For those people who remember that technology, so probably about five and a quarter inch square.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: [laughing]
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And then, gosh, I can't even-
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I remember how long it was when Final Cut became a $300 download on the App Store, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So I think the first one was two grand, the second one was like $600 and then we went down to $300.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And so what they've done is they've bundled Final Cut Pixelmator Logic Pro, which I also paid for, which I think originally was like $700 or $600, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Motion, which I also bought, compressor, which I also bought, and mainstage something I have never bought, which mainstage is for like real-time mixing of stuff, if I remember correctly.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And they've turned that into a package for 130 US, 129 US a year, 12, 99 a month.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: and it includes all the iPad version.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And it includes additional content for what I call iWork.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So keynote pages numbers, so your spreadsheet, your text processing and your presentation tool.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I think this is really fascinating.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: What I really want to see is what they've added into all those hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of apps that I've already paid for.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: What would make me want to turn it into a subscription.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Because right now, I have them.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: You do, I don't, but I will do now, because that's very much on my list of things to do,
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: so to get that many tools to do the sort of things that we all want to do, and also say that kind of tie in.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And so it's pulling more at generi stuff into the normal everyday work tools. It's really intriguing.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And now I'm retired. I'm doing lots of local generation of AI video and stuff like that, and try and work out how to tell the stories I want to tell.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I want to do, you know, there's more writing to do, and obviously, yes, the third book, but I'm learning to draw so I can kind of work out how to do characters and manga and stuff.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So having any of those tools available to just throw it relatively inexpensive.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I've given the cost of each individual one relatively inexpensive thing. I mean, that's the same price as a runway subscription for years. So it's exciting. And I didn't know, I didn't realize until I saw the show now.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I admit, having said I pay attention to everything, I missed that one somewhere, and it's like, oh!
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So so you mentioned something just kind of in passing in that that I think some of our listeners might be wondering about a third book. Is there a series that you've been working on?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yes, yes, so reconfiguring context with two books that I wrote before, it's now a decade ago.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That sounds awful, doesn't it? But there's always been a third one in my head, and the second one finished, the spoiler, they all finish on some sort of cliffhanger.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And so I'm building and researching that, not in any particular way.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: A lot of the things that I'm doing, and the way that the creative tools work now, and the way AI works now and the way I'm learning to draw things and learn to play instruments and stuff, is all actually research, as well as beneficial for my brain.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But you're not going to be George R. R. Martin, are you?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: that that's a change for how
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: lead character will lead character Roshy may have to do things, that's a spoiler alert.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, we kicked off this show with an incredible title.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But by the way, yes, I am very excited to hear that book three might actually occur.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Thank you.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: We kicked off this show with a title all about Wikipedia.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And before the show, you and I were talking about this article and Wikipedia turned 25 this month, and they've created a really cool little site at Wikipedia25.org, which lets you kind of go through a time.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: with all kinds of interesting factoid stories, videos, and UI changes that they've done in the 25 years.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And you and I were talking and you said, "Oh yeah, this reminds me when I did a show about their 10th anniversary."
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So tell us about that.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, so 15 years ago obviously now it's very easy to do the math but that's that's a good thing about 25 but on the kill stuff collective which was a Saturday morning kids TV show in the UK where I was resident super geek and I turned up and had a little slot to talk about interesting things, hopefully interesting things, where we did 3D printing and all sorts of I think, you know, this is it was-
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: it was for 7 to 11 year olds, but so many of those were in the workplace, I should imagine, and yeah, yeah, that's just, that's because, but one of the things was it was Wikipedia's 10th anniversary, so the production team said, well, that's not really interesting, it's just a website of facts and encyclopedia is why kids are going to be interested, and I said, well, you can build your own, how many people can contribute, and it'd be great if we could persuade someone to start contributing.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, think about that for a second.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So, and during the course of the live show, well, no, the live transmission show wasn't live, but during the course of the show, we watched some stuff appear where, where kids were trying to build pages about the other presenters, because I had a Wikipedia page, and part of the joke was that, so the other present, the main presenter didn't have one, and he was going, well, I got one, and we had our monkey character.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: He was, um, causing mischief as well, and kids started to create links between size page and monkeys page, and say, in monkeys, keywords, and science stuff, it all got, it all got knocked out very quickly by the bots and both of Wikipedia's, because it obviously wasn't the real thing, you know, and wasn't detailed enough, but, but some kids were doing it, and who knows, they may be Wikipedia's now, so if they are brilliant.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: - Right, that's awesome.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Awesome.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah, it's interesting and part of that,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: we have p225.org page, talks about the challenges that they've had over time and how they approach them,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: whether it was blackout pages or whatever.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And now with, uh,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: kind of almost circling back to the beginning, right?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: - Yeah.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: With the, with the massive scraping by AI tools to kind of suck in and reuse
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: their content. Um, it's, uh, you know,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: the challenge to how do you keep it created by Wikipedia and it's not by,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: AI tools speeding out content and, and flooding the zone.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So to speak with garbage or crap. Um,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So really, really cool to see this.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: It's really exciting and really interesting.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I have someone who doesn't have a Wikipedia page.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: [laughter]
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure somebody would create one or you I mean, that's
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, they would have to disambiguate me with a couple other famous Michael Rose.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Well, I'm sure I'll do that That's a that's a challenge to the listeners
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But no, it's just fascinating.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: So anything interesting tech-wise that you see coming up or that you saw recently
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: that our listeners might be tantalized.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Well, I did allude to the fact I'm doing some local generation of videos.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So just this month, I think, and I know we've just go not more AI, here we go again.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: But I, because I had a bit of time, I thought I'll have a look at how this stuff works.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And I installed something called comfy UI, which is a workflow, doodile thing.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: and it let me, it had a template for lots and lots of
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: different types of AI generation stuff. I'm sure it does other things as well. But it installed without me having to bother faffing around doing anything and all the dependencies and stuff,
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: all the Python and all that kind of lucky. It installed LTX2, LTX2.0 or -2 or whatever, which is all over the internet and all over the various social media things. And it's a local model to generate
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: video, proper video.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: You know, four to 10 seconds depending on how much memory you've got.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: But with sound and with lip sync, it's just, it's, you can kind of see that the next set of models will be the things that we've currently got on, clean and on runway and stuff.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: There's that kind of, there's commercial side of stuff with some big players that you pay,
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: subscription and you have to pay for the cloud and pay for all their processing power.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And then there's the, I'll just run some opens.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And that it is amazing, it's, it's much quicker and cheaper of say to, or it's not quicker, it's cheaper, much cheaper, but it doesn't, it's not sitting there waiting 24 hours like you used to for a 3D render back in the olden days, you know, it's sort of 640 by 48, yeah, it's, it's like, oh no, this takes ages and then you realize it's only actually taking 10 minutes.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I was about to go to that exact sample, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So, you know 10 minutes for a few seconds of video, yes, it's going to take a long while to string that all together into a movie, but you know, you kind of do in rashes of staff and you work and know what you might want to do and it's storyboarding by another means and the fact that it talks.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I'll just just think about just just think about Toy Story where when it first came out how long did it take them to render a couple of seconds of video, right?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it's, and it's also, I know it's, I know it's, I know.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I don't know what other people are going to do with it, but I did get my lead character to swear.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So, Roshine swore, she doesn't sweat necessarily swear much in books, but I just, there was an exasperation I wanted, so I just got her to do an F bomb just to see if it would go, oh, I'm sorry, you're not allowed to do that kind of language, it didn't care, it just did it.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, it's your local environment. So so depends on what the guardrails are set up
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That's what I mean, but you never know whether they've put them in the model in the
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yeah
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: model but they haven't, which is good and bad obviously because people will be generating all sorts of things they shouldn't be possibly.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: So it was lovely to see her swear and slam her shap, laptop shut.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: And it was like, oh, here we go.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Awesome well knowing you I assume at some point there'll be a nice blog post of your configuration and how you got this all working.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Yes, possibly, but I mean it'll be a very quick blog post because it'll just say install comfy, comfy UI, and just off you go. There's many more of these things, but
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: [laughing]
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: it was interesting delving down into one of the nodes though, because it just looks,
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: you know, it's a typical workflow, you think now with some wires and stuff like that and some little blocks. And I thought, "Ah, right, well, it's all sort of black box where it's going off doing this stuff and I happened to click on the main one and went down to the next level.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: and just got these massive page wiring and things and prep rammots and stuff and it was like yeah that's complicated.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: That's gonna take a little while to figure out what that means. So I'll leave it as little box to let it render stuff for me.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: [laughing]
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Awesome.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But the thing that I find the most interesting right now with all this change, this really fast change,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: and we could spend time talking about like Claude,
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: but I'm not going to today.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: But is the fact that there's a generation of developers and IT specialists and techies and geeks who understand what I'll--
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: all that means and what it was built on, right?
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Mm-hmm. Yes
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And then there's a generation that--
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: it's purely a black box.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And that happens with every kind of technology shift, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: My dad used to work on his car and do everything on it.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I'd encourage you to do a little--
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: now it's like it's a black box.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I don't care.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Just make it work, right?
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: And we see that same thing with this.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: and.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Uh, I'm wondering if that black box.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, there's tons of sci-fi books about this, I'm sure.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: If not knowing what's in that black, black box will be problematic.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I may be problematic, it may just spark some interesting things that we hadn't thought of as well.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Yep. Yes, yes. Here.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I'm trying not to be dystopian here, but obviously there's enough going on in the world to be dystopian about it, but when you generate something and go, "Oh, that's weird."
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I generated a Shakespearean act.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: I just put some of the words in, see whether it bothered putting any emotion in to it or just really out, and it did put some emotion in different to a proper person, but it was holding a skull because I had said holding a skull, but for some reason it had a great big unicorn horn on it.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: [laughing]
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: But no idea. Now it's done where that came from, but it was like, oh, I wonder if there's a magic unicorn.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Maybe it's made someone ice dream as fallen into this one, and can we smash those plays together and see what happens. So it's things like that, that I'm willing to go with the serendipity of weird things.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Well, and thank you for joining us this week on games@work.biz.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: I think we'd like to hear everybody else's opinion on what's cool lately for them.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: If so, drop us a note over at our website.
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: Imagine this, games@work.biz, it matches the show, or you can find us over on Mastodon.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Games at work.biz!
B0638AB2-1B0E-49F2-82D2-56974D4CEFBF: We'd love to hear from you.
A90EB14F-8D7D-4506-A509-1DA6AE7136DF: Thank you. It's been a pleasure
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